# Wisconsin GOP passes union-stripping bill **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 10, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111 "2011-03-10T00:56:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/321 "2011-03-11T14:47:19Z")
> [@Skip](#): > > [Huh?](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/remuneration) > Am I being whooshed here? No. I get paid. I don’t get paid by the hour, but I get paid for the results I deliver. Delivering those results means that I handle issues that happen early in the morning and later in the evening when they happen. My employer appreciates this and pays me for it. There’s no “extra 5 hours.” Because there’s no 8 hour day in my job. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/322 "2011-03-11T14:55:17Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > So who paid for your law school? Scholarships granted on basis of financial need? Government subsidized student loans? Again, the liberal mind in its programmed little course. No student loans, and no need-based scholarships, either for undergraduate or law school. Academic based scholarship, yes. EARNED by my grades. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/323 "2011-03-11T15:12:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But you stack the deck as best you can to minimize damage. Liberal: “Daaaaaang! I thought we were all sharing the same deck?” 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/324 "2011-03-11T15:14:28Z")
You might try asking yourself this: why do you so desperately want to cling to the idea that luck, or the generous liberal programs, MUST have been a factor? You twist and turn, desperate to find something that you can use to say, “Ah ha! See! It wasn’t hard work at all!” I think it’s because liberals, despite lip service to the concept, DON’T believe in hard work. They think it’s a lottery, because to face up to the contrary fact would seriously hurt their most cherished concepts. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/325 "2011-03-11T15:15:45Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > Liberal: “Daaaaaang! I thought we were all sharing the same deck?” 😕 Excellent analogy. The liberal seems to picture that if someone has wealth, it was taken from someone else. The idea the people’s work _creates_ wealth is frightening and foreign to the liberal mind. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/326 "2011-03-11T15:16:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You might try asking yourself this: why do you so desperately want to cling to the idea that luck, or the generous liberal programs, MUST have been a factor? You twist and turn, desperate to find something that you can use to say, “Ah ha! See! It wasn’t hard work at all!” > > I think it’s because liberals, despite lip service to the concept, DON’T believe in hard work. They think it’s a lottery, because to face up to the contrary fact would seriously hurt their most cherished concepts. And Bricker finally, conclusively proves that he doesn’t believe in the truth and that he’s just another conservaliar. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/327 "2011-03-11T15:18:38Z")
Hehe, more of the same from the usual idiots. The greatest liberal douche hits just keep on rolling. I think the daughter thing and “how’d you pay for law school” thing just about cover it though. See you all in a few months when we do this thread again. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/328 "2011-03-11T15:41:26Z")
> [@margin](#): > > And Bricker finally, conclusively proves that he doesn’t believe in the truth and that he’s just another conservaliar. We all know my job. And my life is fair game to prove some point about luck (which has failed thus far). So let’s see how the shoe fits on the other foot. What do you do, again, **margin**? Supermodel? CEO? Test pilot? How has the luck of the draw treated you in life? How have you used your (ha! ha!) shining intellect to better your lot in life? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/329 "2011-03-11T15:46:16Z")
Color me unimpressed. Virtually all academic scholarships have some need component, whether they say so or not. His persecution complex is overpowering. If he thinks that I think he’s an asshole because he’s conservative he’s wrong. In truth, he’s conservative because he’s an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/330 "2011-03-11T15:55:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t know too much about this circumstance, but my understanding is that this is a result of the “No Child Left Behind,” act, which requires that a school receiving federal funds must ensure that students learning English are instructed by teachers fluent in the language. I don’t know how strong your accent is, but my understanding is that the issue is fluency, not accent. > > I welcome a correction on the matter. I accept my limitations, that is why I can’t ever be an English teacher even if I have found my reading comprehension is superiors to many natives. 🙂 . My academic forte is Social Studies; however, the new rules do not cover just teachers that only teach English. You see, there is a little bit of history that needs to be explained: Until recently students that were not fluent in English had a chance to get remedial or extra classes to keep up, but then the law was changed to eliminate that and integrate the language improvement to all other subjects, science, math, etc. So then the conservative controlled department of education goes forward and interprets that, when they are students still learning English (A certainty in many districts), therefore now all subjects require teachers that not only are fluent in grammar, but also that students can understand them properly. So this would not be happening if they had not pressed for English immersion, it is indeed sink or swim for students, but also teachers that do not teach english are affected. [http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/teachers/heavily-accented-teachers-remo.html](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/teachers/heavily-accented-teachers-remo.html) > [@](#): > > School districts in Arizona are under orders from the state’s Department of Education to remove from classrooms teachers who speak English with a very heavy accent or whose speech is ungrammatical. > > Officials say they want students who don’t know much English to have teachers who can best model how to speak the language, but, according to The Wall Street Journal, some principals and administrators are concerned that the standards for removal are arbitrary. > [@Bricker](#): > > This rule predates the Tea Party, and in fact was championed by the Lion of the Senate, Ted Kennedy. > > As I understand it, anyway, Ted was a Democrat. Of course it predated the tea party, but the ones interpreting the law now are. Incidentally, the opening I got to get into teaching was thanks to the rules under “no child left behind”, as they needed teachers to pass a test to demonstrate that they are knowledgeable in their subject I was paid by one of the principals in the former charter school I was to take the state exam in social studies, I aced the test on the first try, but then this issue cropped up, so it is back to IT. Luckily 🙂 I have several ways to progress under my belt. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/331 "2011-03-11T15:55:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …Because if we did, we might realize that the hand-outs are precisely what KEEPS us in poverty… Dogma, straight from the conservative catechism, an article of faith to be accepted without question, without proof. Good thing they don’t come to your door, isn’t it? The little ones, _pobrecitos_. begging bowls thrust towards you in grubby little hands, beseeching Head Start, hot lunches, health care. Good thing you don’t have to look into their eyes when you say “No”, you might see your own beloved, there but for the grace of St. Ayn… What if they aren’t as smart as you, **Bricker**? What then, what if they don’t have the crisp intelligence you so proudly display to us? Did you earn it? How? However were you smart enough to realize you had to? Whatever shall we do with all of these useless people? More to the point, whatever shall we do with all their children? Can we devise some legal mechanism to prevent the undeserving from making babies? Well,we can offer them Tough Love! That’s the ticket! And it costs us nothing! Well, a little something, an insignificant speck, a trivial little thing we won’t even notice when its gone… ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/332 "2011-03-11T15:56:38Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > His persecution complex is overpowering. If he thinks that I think he’s an asshole because he’s conservative he’s wrong. In truth, he’s conservative because he’s an asshole. Ding, ding, ding! But research suggests that it may not be completely his doing. He may have been at a genetic disadvantage. Or maybe it was a lack of friends. > [@](#): > > Here, we hypothesize that individuals with a genetic predisposition toward seeking out new experiences will tend to be more liberal, but only if they are embedded in a social context that provides them with multiple points of view. Using data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, we test this hypothesis by investigating an association between self-reported political ideology and the 7R variant of the dopamine receptor D4 gene (DRD4), which has previously been associated with novelty seeking. Among those with DRD4-7R, we find that the number of friendships a person has in adolescence is significantly associated with liberal political ideology. Among those without the gene variant, there is no association. This is the first study to elaborate a specific gene-environment interaction that contributes to ideological self-identification, and it highlights the importance of incorporating both nature and nurture into the study of political preferences. Jaime E. Settle, Christopher T. Dawes, Peter K. Hatemi, Nicholas A. Christakis, James H. Fowler (2010). Friendships Moderate an Association Between a Dopamine Gene Variant and Political Ideology. The Journal of Politics, Vol. 72, No. 4, 1189–1198. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/333 "2011-03-11T15:57:28Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …Bricker, why do you not support the right of workers to collectively negotiate if they so wish? > [@Bricker](#): > > Because: > > > [@](#): > > > > In 2010, Megan Sampson was named an Outstanding First Year Teacher in Wisconsin. A week later, she got a layoff notice from the Milwaukee Public Schools. Why would one of the best new teachers in the state be one of the first let go? Because her collective-bargaining contract requires staffing decisions to be made based on seniority. **Bricker** ’s logic: Why do you not support the right of people to own guns if they so wish? Because: (insert anecdote about a mass-murder committed with a gun). Why do you not support the right of people to drive automobiles if they so wish? Because: (insert anecdote about a horrific chain-reaction crash caused by a careless driver.) Need I go on? ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/334 "2011-03-11T15:57:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > We all know my job. And my life is fair game to prove some point about luck (which has failed thus far). > > So let’s see how the shoe fits on the other foot. > > What do you do, again, **margin**? Supermodel? CEO? Test pilot? How has the luck of the draw treated you in life? How have you used your (ha! ha!) shining intellect to better your lot in life? You’re an asshole who lies about liberals and defends rapists and murderers. I retired medically from the US Army after nineteen years in, due to injuries suffered in Iraq. I speak two other languages and have served in the former Soviet Union, the Ukraine, various areas in the Middle East and Southeast Asia, Europe, and Cuba. Before joining the military, I was a ballet dancer and had to quit due to a badly fractured ankle. Obviously those things are not important to you because if you’re not a model, a CEO, or whatever it doesn’t matter to you. No wonder you’re a Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/335 "2011-03-11T16:01:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I took what my dad told me to heart: that the best way to handle that is to be better. Complaining about alleged anti-conservative bias here doesn’t seem to be working out for you. Maybe you ought to try Dad’s advice, and start offering better arguments. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/336 "2011-03-11T16:02:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Again, the liberal mind in its programmed little course. > > No student loans, and no need-based scholarships, either for undergraduate or law school. > > Academic based scholarship, yes. EARNED by my grades. > [@](#): > > The liberal seems to picture that if someone has wealth, it was taken from someone else. The idea the people’s work creates wealth is frightening and foreign to the liberal mind. You keep asserting things about “the liberal mind.” Here’s a request - stop it. You don’t have a “liberal mind” and by evidence of your assertions here you’ve drawn incredibly simplistic conclusions regarding what “the liberal mind” can understand and how “the liberal mind” operates. (For instance, you may have heard of a theory of capital commonly assumed to be given much credence by leftists and liberals over the past hundred and fifty years or so. Caused some stir in Asia and Europe over that period of time, I understand. Has to do with the creation of wealth through labor, somewhat tangentially related to the OP, wouldn’t you say?) Even if you lack the capacity to consider other ideas without adopting them, you should at least understand that exhibiting that lack hardly makes you persuasive to those who are still (somehow) inclined to engage you in discussion. Now, is it your position that since you earned your scholarship through academic merit it was _not_ a form of outside aid, or that your ability to show such merit somehow created the reality of that scholarship’s existence? Is it your contention that all forms of educational aid awarded on the basis of the financial means or defined legal class of the student are acting in some way to hold those students (or others of their defined legal class) in the conditions which the aid is designed to ameliorate? Or that forms of aid awarded without regard to needs do not act in the same way? If so, can you describe how the specific criteria used to select recipients for these gifts of money creates those different effects within each class of recipients? Or do you just mean to imply without explicitly stating that those who aren’t bright enough, ambitious enough and hard enough working to gain merit-based advancement to the degree you’ve achieved are lesser beings? Your charming and persuasive exchanges with **margin** seem to point in that direction. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/337 "2011-03-11T16:03:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You might try asking yourself this: why do you so desperately want to cling to the idea that luck, or the generous liberal programs, MUST have been a factor? You twist and turn, desperate to find something that you can use to say, “Ah ha! See! It wasn’t hard work at all!” > > I think it’s because liberals, despite lip service to the concept, DON’T believe in hard work. They think it’s a lottery, because to face up to the contrary fact would seriously hurt their most cherished concepts. And resorting to caricatures just makes lose any respect I would have for you. Hard work also made my family go to higher levels in this country after living in poverty for several years. What I see here is a complete disbelief that many liberals also work hard, but that they are also not blinded to injustice, like guys like you are. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/338 "2011-03-11T16:07:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Again, the liberal mind in its programmed little course. > > No student loans, and no need-based scholarships, either for undergraduate or law school. > > Academic based scholarship, yes. EARNED by my grades. Your dad who came here with nothing. Did he pay enough in taxes to account for the cost of your and your brother’s K-12 education? You made the claim earlier you grew up below the poverty line. That being the case others subsidized your education. Fuckin liberals… Would the US allow someone like your dad, with nothing but the shirt on his back, to legally immigrate to the US today? Liberals are such assholes for allowing a system that let your dad in. The bastards. Lucky we have conservatives out there putting a stop to this travesty. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/339 "2011-03-11T16:14:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I think it’s because liberals, despite lip service to the concept, DON’T believe in hard work. They think it’s a lottery, because to face up to the contrary fact would seriously hurt their most cherished concepts. You have zero basis for this assertion. It is typical knee-jerk conservative pablum. In April of 2000 unemployment was at 3.8%. It can barely get lower (there is no such thing as a 0% unemployment rate). I guess that 3.8% were lazy liberals and the people working were the other 96.2% that are conservatives. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/340 "2011-03-11T16:16:44Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Huh, guys, a Hispanic \*\*could \*\*be a white person. Well if you couldn’t tell I didn’t mean it as an insult. I’m not particularly bright but just reading his posts it seemed to me that he was an older somewhat wealthy white dude. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111.md?page=18)