# Wisconsin GOP passes union-stripping bill **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 10, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111 "2011-03-10T00:56:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/341 "2011-03-11T16:19:13Z")
Let’s not forget, public universities are subsidized by the government. Earn the money yourself and pay tuition at a private school and I’ll say you’re self made. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/342 "2011-03-11T16:20:59Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > You have zero basis for this assertion. It is typical knee-jerk conservative pablum. > > In April of 2000 unemployment was at 3.8%. It can barely get lower (there is no such thing as a 0% unemployment rate). > > I guess that 3.8% were lazy liberals and the people working were the other 96.2% that are conservatives. :rolleyes: Amazing how many people suddenly turned lazy when the Wall Street speculative bubbled burst. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/343 "2011-03-11T16:25:52Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Color me unimpressed. Virtually all academic scholarships have some need component, whether they say so or not. His persecution complex is overpowering. If he thinks that I think he’s an asshole because he’s conservative he’s wrong. In truth, he’s conservative because he’s an asshole. Bullshit. They didn’t ask for, nor did we have to provide, financial information. This is exactly what I’m talking about. Cover your ears! It can’t be true, what he’s saying! Think, think…think of something to refute it. Got it! Academic scholarships still have a need component! They _just don’t say so!_ “Um… we didn’t provide financial info… how would they know?” Never mind! Never mind that, now! It must have been need! You hear me? It MUST HAVE BEEN NEEEEEEED!!! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/344 "2011-03-11T16:31:57Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > **Bricker** ’s logic: > > Why do you not support the right of people to own guns if they so wish? > Because: (insert anecdote about a mass-murder committed with a gun). > > Why do you not support the right of people to drive automobiles if they so wish? > Because: (insert anecdote about a horrific chain-reaction crash caused by a careless driver.) > > Need I go on? It’s not one anecdote. It’s evident from the behavior of unions as whole. Your guno-owning example fails precisely because when you generalize to the world of legal gun owners, you find less crime than the average citizen. not more. When you generalize to union contracts, you find an across-the-board inability to fire poor teachers and an across-the-board resistance to merit pay. It’s not one anecdote, pithy as it might be. Unions resist measures that reward comptence, and unions push measures that reward seniority and mediocrity. This is why liberals love them – they eschew individual achievement in favor of the herd mentality. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/345 "2011-03-11T16:33:40Z")
> [@](#): > > …Never mind! Never mind that, now! It must have been need! You hear me? It MUST HAVE BEEN NEEEEEEED!!! Well. OK, why didn’t you refuse? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/346 "2011-03-11T16:33:49Z")
> [@Omegaman](#): > > Well if you couldn’t tell I didn’t mean it as an insult. I’m not particularly bright but just reading his posts it seemed to me that he was an older somewhat wealthy white dude. Several Cuban-Americans fit this, and in my former neck of the woods, there are many white Hispanics, that thanks to prejudice they do get better deals than the mestizos (mixed race are the majority) or the Indians. If Bicker was still in the old country he would most likely be with the elitists at the right wing ARENA party. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/347 "2011-03-11T16:36:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s not one anecdote. It’s evident from the behavior of unions as whole. > > Your guno-owning example fails precisely because when you generalize to the world of legal gun owners, you find less crime than the average citizen. not more. When you generalize to union contracts, you find an across-the-board inability to fire poor teachers and an across-the-board resistance to merit pay. > > It’s not one anecdote, pithy as it might be. Unions resist measures that reward comptence, and unions push measures that reward seniority and mediocrity. This is why liberals love them – they eschew individual achievement in favor of the herd mentality. Nice assertions. I suspect, like many of your contributions (Georgia code, I’m looking at you) that you’re pulling them out of your ass, and that veneer on them is not actually one from expertise, but from this morning’s breakfast. Or, to put it more succinctly, cite? Further, thanks for showing your true colors. It’s been annoying to have people refer to you as an example of an intelligent, thoughtful conservative. I’ll bookmark this thread as a handy reference, should that assertion ever show up again. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/348 "2011-03-11T16:37:28Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > You keep asserting things about “the liberal mind.” Here’s a request - stop it. I’ll stop it when I see others stop making similarly broad swipes against conservative thought. Are my examples wrong? Of course they are. There’s no “all liberals,” and what I’m painting is a highly caricatured version of what the liberal philosphy is. Much like what’s done on this board every day to conservatives. Sucks to be on the receiving end, does it? > [@](#): > > Now, is it your position that since you earned your scholarship through academic merit it was _not_ a form of outside aid, or that your ability to show such merit somehow created the reality of that scholarship’s existence? It was a form of outside aid. > [@](#): > > Is it your contention that all forms of educational aid awarded on the basis of the financial means or defined legal class of the student are acting in some way to hold those students (or others of their defined legal class) in the conditions which the aid is designed to ameliorate? Or that forms of aid awarded without regard to needs do not act in the same way? If so, can you describe how the specific criteria used to select recipients for these gifts of money creates those different effects within each class of recipients? Yes, but not in this thread. > [@](#): > > Or do you just mean to imply without explicitly stating that those who aren’t bright enough, ambitious enough and hard enough working to gain merit-based advancement to the degree you’ve achieved are lesser beings? Your charming and persuasive exchanges with **margin** seem to point in that direction. If I had to make a list of lesser beings, I surely would put **margin** at the head of it. There’s a dung beetle vying for first place, but since it actually serves an ecological function, no such luck. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/349 "2011-03-11T16:38:33Z")
> [@](#): > > …It’s been annoying to have people refer to you as an example of an intelligent, thoughtful conservative He is. Unfortunately, this is as good as it gets. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/350 "2011-03-11T16:39:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’ll stop it when I see others stop making similarly broad swipes against conservative thought. Are my examples wrong? Of course they are. There’s no “all liberals,” and what I’m painting is a highly caricatured version of what the liberal philosphy is. > > Much like what’s done on this board every day to conservatives. > > Sucks to be on the receiving end, does it? I kind of figured this was some kind of attempted gotcha ya. Unfortunately, it’s like many conservative efforts - completely divorced from reality. My assertions regarding personality and conservativism, on the other hand, are informed by empirical evidence. What’ve yuns got? A boatload of fail, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/351 "2011-03-11T16:42:01Z")
“Liberals don’t believe in hard work,” says the guy posting 20 times a day from work. I can only hope I can someday latch onto that sort of Conservative work ethic. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/352 "2011-03-11T16:43:47Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Several Cuban-Americans fit this, and in my former neck of the woods, there are many white Hispanics, that thanks to prejudice they do get better deals than the mestizos (mixed race are the majority) or the Indians. > > If Bicker was still in the old country he would most likely be with the elitists at the right wing ARENA party. Yes, because the leftists were so great for our people, weren’t they? Viva la Frente Farabundo Martí para la Liberación, verdad?? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/353 "2011-03-11T16:45:02Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > “Liberals don’t believe in hard work,” says the guy posting 20 times a day from work. I can only hope I can someday latch onto that sort of Conservative work ethic. Asked and answered, dickwad. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/354 "2011-03-11T16:46:40Z")
> [@margin](#): > > You’re an asshole who lies about liberals and defends rapists and murderers. > > I retired medically from the US Army after nineteen years in, due to injuries suffered in Iraq. I speak two other languages and have served in the former Soviet Union, the Ukraine, various areas in the Middle East and Southeast Asia, Europe, and Cuba. Before joining the military, I was a ballet dancer and had to quit due to a badly fractured ankle. > > Obviously those things are not important to you because if you’re not a model, a CEO, or whatever it doesn’t matter to you. No wonder you’re a Republican. No, actually those do matter. Quite a lot. Sorry about the crack about your employment. I’m proud of my job, but I can’t say it was as important as yours. I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/355 "2011-03-11T16:47:15Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Complaining about alleged anti-conservative bias here doesn’t seem to be working out for you. Maybe you ought to try Dad’s advice, and start offering better arguments. > [@Bricker](#): > > Much like what’s done on this board every day to conservatives. Never mind. I see that dear old Dad’s words fell on deaf ears. > [@Bricker](#): > > Asked and answered, dickwad. I suppose it’s Dad’s fault for wasting his breath suggesting that you “be better”. Peals, swine… ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/356 "2011-03-11T16:48:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, because the leftists were so great for our people, weren’t they? Viva la Frente Farabundo Martí para la Liberación, verdad?? As they won the last elections and are showing that most of the demonizing was a lie, yes, it is verdad. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/357 "2011-03-11T16:49:55Z")
I’m going to step away from this thread. I’m let myself get into a state of spitting anger, rudeness, and vile behavior. **margin** , you and I disagree on many things, and undoubtedly will continue to do so. But it was boorish, rude, and beyond the pale for me to impugn your employment, especially given your service in the armed forces and reasons for leaving same. That was shameful on my part, and you have no reason to accept this apology, but I offer it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/358 "2011-03-11T16:53:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m going to step away from this thread. I’m let myself get into a state of spitting anger, rudeness, and vile behavior. > > **margin** , you and I disagree on many things, and undoubtedly will continue to do so. But it was boorish, rude, and beyond the pale for me to impugn your employment, especially given your service in the armed forces and reasons for leaving same. That was shameful on my part, and you have no reason to accept this apology, but I offer it anyway. Out of curiosity, what if he were an accountant, firefighter, teacher, librarian, and so on and so forth? What if he had remained a ballet dancer? Would your impugn-ment have not required any apology? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/359 "2011-03-11T16:55:57Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Never mind. I see that dear old Dad’s words fell on deaf ears. > > I suppose it’s Dad’s fault for wasting his breath suggesting that you “be better”. Peals, swine… Bad form. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/360 "2011-03-11T17:04:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You might try asking yourself this: why do you so desperately want to cling to the idea that luck, or the generous liberal programs, MUST have been a factor? You twist and turn, desperate to find something that you can use to say, “Ah ha! See! It wasn’t hard work at all!” > > I think it’s because liberals, despite lip service to the concept, DON’T believe in hard work. They think it’s a lottery, because to face up to the contrary fact would seriously hurt their most cherished concepts. Or perhaps, through personal experience of going through the process as someone coming from a “poor” family (we qualified for food stamps based on my father’s military salary but didn’t apply for them), it’s SOP going through the financial aid office to see what, if anything you qualify for, that financially challenged applicants get some sort of aid. Work-study jobs, subsidized loans, and Pell Grants were common when the applicant had limited means. Oh sure, there were a couple of academic or test based scholarships too as part of the package. In my experience, individuals were on the rare side that came from “poor” families and didn’t get anything. Yours is a rare case if you didn’t get anything and you suggesting that it’s liberal ideology that makes people wonder about your circumstances just shows a lack of information about the process. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111.md?page=19)