# Wisconsin GOP passes union-stripping bill **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 10, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111 "2011-03-10T00:56:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/421 "2011-03-17T01:40:13Z")
There were over 100 thousand people at a rally in Wisconsin last Fri’/Sat. Did you see it on TV? You can not win. they will not cover it. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/422 "2011-03-17T02:24:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have a couple of charts to add to that picture: > > LIKELIHOOD OF SLEEPING WITH HELEN HUNT AT LEAST ONCE IN LIFETIME: > Bricker: \*\* > Hank Azaria: \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* > > SALARY EXPECTATIONS: > Bricker: \*\* > Bill Gates: \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* > > Therefore, we should immediately demand that Congress pass laws requiring Ms. Hunt to sleep with me[sup]\*[/sup] and Bill Gates to give me half his wealth, so that the charts will even out a bit. > > - Also, for humanitarian reasons, they’ll need to pass some sort of lifetime protection clause for me from the wrath of Mrs. Bricker. But… that’s absurd! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/423 "2011-03-17T09:00:13Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > All the women in the world, and you went with Helen Hunt? The heart wants what it wants. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/424 "2011-03-17T14:55:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The heart wants what it wants. “Love isn’t blind, it’s retarded.” ~Two and Half Men ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/425 "2011-03-17T19:04:11Z")
Back to the OP… For those interested in the other side of the conversation on the matter, Scott Walker wrote an [interesting editorial](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/striking-the-right-bargain-in-wisconsin-/2011/03/14/ABL7cAh_story.html?hpid=z4) in today’s WaPo about his situation, and why he did what he did. Of interest: > [@](#): > > Some have questioned the need to reform collective bargaining. After all, they say, the union bosses in Washington said publicly that their workers were ready to pay a little bit more for their benefits. But the truth is that as the national union bosses were saying one thing, their locals were doing something entirely different. Over the past several weeks, local unions across Wisconsin have pursued contracts without new pension or health insurance contributions. Some have even pushed through pay increases. > > Their actions leave one wondering how tone-deaf and out of touch union bosses are with what’s happening in the private sector. Even the president instituted a pay freeze on government workers this year, something he was able to do only because federal employees enjoy fewer collective bargaining rights than do Wisconsin workers — even with our recent reforms. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/426 "2011-03-17T19:11:55Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Back to the OP… > > For those interested in the other side of the conversation on the matter, Scott Walker wrote an [interesting editorial](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/striking-the-right-bargain-in-wisconsin-/2011/03/14/ABL7cAh_story.html?hpid=z4) in today’s WaPo about his situation, and why he did what he did. > > Of interest: Of course, this is completely contradicted by many interviews of the union people on site at the demonstrations. They’d already conceded the benefit issues that had been demanded. The Walker from that punked phone call is the one I believe. Walker did what he did for purely political reasons, just as he cut business taxes, impairing budget issues for political reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/427 "2011-03-17T19:22:53Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > Of course, this is completely contradicted by many interviews of the union people on site at the demonstrations. They’d already conceded the benefit issues that had been demanded. The ones who were blatantly getting false medical notes so they could pretend to be sick? yeah, I’d trust those paragons of character and virtue with my life… :rolleyes: I’m guessing you didn’t read the piece. It goes beyond the conceded benefit issues - it goes to a structural imbalance where the local Democratic leaders are ‘negotiating’ with the same union bosses who funded their elections. You would have to be blind not to see the conflict of interest there. Or to put it in a way a liberal can understand: would it be OK for the NRA, some global company, or a trade organization to be the primary fundraiser and campaign contributor for a politician who has direct control and influence on negotiations for direct payments to those organizations? Or legislation that involves regulation that those organizations are pushing, mainly for [rent seeking](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking) purposes? Of course not, only an idiot would want a government run that way. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/428 "2011-03-17T19:23:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The heart wants what it wants. I’m hoping you’ve seen Trancers. It’s a terrible movie, but she’s so amazingly young and beautiful in that film that it hurts. Not that she hasn’t aged well, but she really is very stunning there. Also, time-travelling private eye/blade-runner guy fighting cultist-zombies with a blaster and a time distorting watch. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/429 "2011-03-17T19:29:03Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > The ones who were blatantly getting false medical notes so they could pretend to be sick? yeah, I’d trust those paragons of character and virtue with my life… :rolleyes: Instead you trust the guy who was seriously considering agent provocateurs to sow violence in the crowds? The people were protesting. It’s important. Did you know that the original Tea Partiers were protesters? Idiot. > [@](#): > > I’m guessing you didn’t read the piece. It goes beyond the conceded benefit issues - it goes to a structural imbalance where the local Democratic leaders are ‘negotiating’ with the same union bosses who funded their elections. > > You would have to be blind not to see the conflict of interest there. No, you’d be blind to not see that this is a partisan snipe at the unions because they largely support Democrats. > [@](#): > > Or to put it in a way a liberal can understand: would it be OK for the NRA, some global company, or a trade organization to be the primary fundraiser and campaign contributor for a politician who has direct control and influence on negotiations for direct payments to those organizations? Or legislation that involves regulation that those organizations are pushing, mainly for [rent seeking](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking) purposes? > > Of course not, only an idiot would want a government run that way. Only an idiot wouldn’t see that currently corporate interests elect Republicans who then create lax regulations and tax cutouts for said interests. I, personally would rather working people get said benefits rather than corporate interests. But you are far too stupid and blindly ideological to understand the finer points of the issue. Keep fuckin’ that chicken Smashy. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/430 "2011-03-18T02:22:52Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Only an idiot wouldn’t see that currently corporate interests elect Republicans who then create lax regulations and tax cutouts for said interests. I, personally would rather working people get said benefits rather than corporate interests. But you are far too stupid and blindly ideological to understand the finer points of the issue. I’ve been thinkin’ about this, and I think I’ve finally figured this attitude out. I’m sure you’ll think I’m all wrong, but you’re an idiot, so it doesn’t much matter what you think. Anyway, here it goes: You, as a liberal douche, want the government to enact policies that help those in groups you favor (e.g., “working people”). Therefore, you think that those on the opposite end of the political spectrum must think the same thing–they must want the government to enact policies that help those that you think they favor (e.g., “teh corporations, man”). But, turns out (like on so many other issues, big and small) you are just as wrong as hell. As an official representative of the opposite end of the political spectrum as you, I’d like to inform you that I simply don’t think in terms of which groups a government policy will favor or not. I believe that the policies I favor are beneficial for everyone. I think a society that operates strictly in accordance with the policies I favor would be a better society for all members. So I’m not out to help “OMG teh corporations.” I’m not out to hurt “working people.” And you’re a fucking idiot. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/431 "2011-03-18T02:38:32Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I’ve been thinkin’ about this, and I think I’ve finally figured this attitude out. I’m sure you’ll think I’m all wrong, but you’re an idiot, so it doesn’t much matter what you think. Anyway, here it goes: > > You, as a liberal douche, want the government to enact policies that help those in groups you favor (e.g., “working people”). Therefore, you think that those on the opposite end of the political spectrum must think the same thing–they must want the government to enact policies that help those that you think they favor (e.g., “teh corporations, man”). > > But, turns out (like on so many other issues, big and small) you are just as wrong as hell. As an official representative of the opposite end of the political spectrum as you, I’d like to inform you that I simply don’t think in terms of which groups a government policy will favor or not. I believe that the policies I favor are beneficial for everyone. I think a society that operates strictly in accordance with the policies I favor would be a better society for all members. > > So I’m not out to help “OMG teh corporations.” I’m not out to hurt “working people.” And you’re a fucking idiot. Just for the record under your ideal society, someone down on their luck, from say from a greater banker greed induced recession brought on by incompetent conservative deregulation, can’t feed their family and local charities are too over booked to help, what should happen to them? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/432 "2011-03-18T02:53:07Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Just for the record under your ideal society, someone down on their luck, from say from a greater banker greed induced recession brought on by incompetent conservative deregulation, can’t feed their family and local charities are too over booked to help, what should happen to them? “Should”? I don’t deal in “should,” bub. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/433 "2011-03-18T03:21:41Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I’ve been thinkin’ about this, and I think I’ve finally figured this attitude out. I’m sure you’ll think I’m all wrong, but you’re an idiot, so it doesn’t much matter what you think. Anyway, here it goes: > > You, as a liberal douche, want the government to enact policies that help those in groups you favor (e.g., “working people”). Therefore, you think that those on the opposite end of the political spectrum must think the same thing–they must want the government to enact policies that help those that you think they favor (e.g., “teh corporations, man”). > > But, turns out (like on so many other issues, big and small) you are just as wrong as hell. As an official representative of the opposite end of the political spectrum as you, I’d like to inform you that I simply don’t think in terms of which groups a government policy will favor or not. I believe that the policies I favor are beneficial for everyone. I think a society that operates strictly in accordance with the policies I favor would be a better society for all members. > > So I’m not out to help “OMG teh corporations.” I’m not out to hurt “working people.” And you’re a fucking idiot. I honestly believe that you \*think \*your favored policies will help working people. You’re misinformed and have a delusional view of economics, but I do think your heart is in the right place. You think that if corporations are allowed to maximize profits magic will happen and the rising tide will lift everyone. Its never happened, but you really and truly think that _next time it will for sure!_ You’re a child screaming that Santa is real. It’s pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/434 "2011-03-18T04:39:23Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Great. So America’s poor just needs to move India and they’ll be rich. Problem solved. Well, definitely. They can get jobs over there! ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/435 "2011-03-18T04:41:45Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > “Should”? I don’t deal in “should,” bub. We know./ “Moral obligation” is a superstition to you. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/436 "2011-03-18T04:59:18Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > But, turns out (like on so many other issues, big and small) you are just as wrong as hell. As an official representative of the opposite end of the political spectrum as you, I’d like to inform you that I simply don’t think in terms of which groups a government policy will favor or not. I believe that the policies I favor are beneficial for everyone. I think a society that operates strictly in accordance with the policies I favor would be a better society for all members. > > So I’m not out to help “OMG teh corporations.” I’m not out to hurt “working people.” And you’re a fucking idiot. Except like just about every Libertarian I’ve ever seen, you’re all for a small government but you completely have no answer for how you deal with corporations whose only real check would be a powerful federal government. I’ve seen one especially lolworthy answer here to that which was “monopolies are inherently unstable”. This assumption that minimal intervention and people doing whatever is best for themselves will result in the best outcome for the country as a whole is very often profoundly wrong. It also completely ignores the fact that we have to interact and compete with other countries. (If there is a response here, it will be an insult coupled with ZERO revelation of a considered belief system and reasoning why it will end up being the best system for society.) ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/437 "2011-03-18T12:39:20Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > Except like just about every Libertarian I’ve ever seen, you’re all for a small government but you completely have no answer for how you deal with corporations whose only real check would be a powerful federal government. > > . I don’t claim to have the libertarian chops like **Rand** does, and I understand that this is way off topic, but why is the ‘only real check’ the Federal Government? Why isn’t it the market? Why isn’t it competition? Every day in business, there are competitive threats, market influencers, the press, global pressures, etc. The liberal Xanadu, an excessive and oppressive federal regulatory environment, is yet one more burden heaped on American industry - and then the **Jacquelopes** of the world post some pit thread crying about how jobs are moving overseas. Obviously there needs to be some federal presence in certain places, especially in industries with natural monopolies (like electric power distribution) but the answer so often to many on this board seems to always be, 'We need another Government Program to fix this". The market, the press, and the legal system handles that kind of regulation way more efficiently in so many aspects. I understand that there are so many on this board who are young, or students (see **Han, Lobo** ) who don’t know shit about how the world works, and that’s fine. But my mission is to educate the clueless! In a way, I’m just like Cecil 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/438 "2011-03-18T12:54:13Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > I don’t claim to have the libertarian chops like **Rand** does, and I understand that this is way off topic, but why is the ‘only real check’ the Federal Government? Why isn’t it the market? Why isn’t it competition? If a pharmaceutical company decides they can make a buttload of money selling fake drugs, losing market share will be small consolation to the families of those who die as a result. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/439 "2011-03-18T12:58:14Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I honestly believe that you \*think \*your favored policies will help working people. You’re misinformed and have a delusional view of economics, but I do think your heart is in the right place. > > You think that if corporations are allowed to maximize profits magic will happen and the rising tide will lift everyone. Its never happened, but you really and truly think that _next time it will for sure!_ > > You’re a child screaming that Santa is real. It’s pathetic. You show the failure of your philosophy more clearly with every post. Economic growth is the engine that moves society (ie, everybody) forward. You want to throw sand in the engine out of your desire to help your favored groups. And then you have the temerity to accuse people like me of playing favorites. The truly pathetic thing is that you don’t realize these simple truths. The Santa you believe in is that none of your sand will actually hurt the engine (even though we have example after example–eg, Europe–of exactly that occurring). But it looks like people are finally wising up and your ranks are diminishing. Good riddance. With any luck people like you will be as rare as communists in the US here in a few years. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/440 "2011-03-18T13:01:24Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > But it looks like people are finally wising up and your ranks are diminishing. You are delusional, and that will keep your ideology from ever becoming anything more that an irritating gnat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111.md?page=23)