# Wisconsin GOP passes union-stripping bill **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 10, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111 "2011-03-10T00:56:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![superslug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@superslug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superslug)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/121 "2011-03-10T12:33:54Z")
The gnashing of teeth and howling has reached biblical proportions here. I think all of you public employees should state your case in the marketplace. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/122 "2011-03-10T13:00:35Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > The gnashing of teeth and howling has reached biblical proportions here. I think all of you public employees should state your case in the marketplace. You mean like the Koch Brothers? The only people the Repubs listen to are rich people and businesses out to cut employee wages to below the poverty level. ---
**Author:** ![superslug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@superslug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superslug)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/123 "2011-03-10T13:09:11Z")
> [@margin](#): > > You mean like the Koch Brothers? The only people the Repubs listen to are rich people and businesses out to cut employee wages to below the poverty level. It’s time to escalate to the next level; call their bluff. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/124 "2011-03-10T13:43:39Z")
I certainly hope that’s what happens. Jeez, we’re coming up on the hundredth anniversary of the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire. The Repubs want to send us back to those good old days. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/125 "2011-03-10T13:57:02Z")
> [@margin](#): > > I certainly hope that’s what happens. > > Jeez, we’re coming up on the hundredth anniversary of the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire. The Repubs want to send us back to those good old days. I suppose the absolute idiocy of this comment is forgivable, given that this is the Pit and a rant thread. ---
**Author:** ![superslug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@superslug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superslug)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/126 "2011-03-10T14:01:25Z")
> [@margin](#): > > I certainly hope that’s what happens. > > Jeez, we’re coming up on the hundredth anniversary of the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire. The Repubs want to send us back to those good old days. Yeah.. Because teachers work in sweat shops with physically dangerous conditions. You should definitely state your case in the marketplace. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/127 "2011-03-10T14:05:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I suppose the absolute idiocy of this comment is forgivable, given that this is the Pit and a rant thread. I suppose the utter pretense that the elimination of workers’ rights to organize, of safety & environmental regulations and of other labor laws aren’t long term goals of the Republican Party is forgivable, given that you’re such a serious, sober and polite conservative. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/128 "2011-03-10T14:06:57Z")
God, I love how stupid Republicans are. They like to ignore small indicators, especially of their own assholishness. Run along, Bricker. I’m sure you’ve got to defend James O’Keefe, or at least try your patented bait and switch where a topic about the much-documented bullshit of Repubs gets changed to one of your patented derails about something some liberal supposedly did that’s even worse. Ta ta. ---
**Author:** ![superslug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@superslug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superslug)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/129 "2011-03-10T14:22:16Z")
I love how liberals try to equate the American labor movement to the shenanagans of the NEA. The “plight” of the unionized educator is definitely something you should take up in the marketplace. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/130 "2011-03-10T14:23:52Z")
“Marketplace” is the word he masturbates to. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/131 "2011-03-10T14:27:11Z")
> [@margin](#): > > “Marketplace” is the word he masturbates to. You just claimed that teachers work in physically hazardous conditions. But the idiot in this thread must be someone else. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/132 "2011-03-10T14:34:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You just claimed that teachers work in physically hazardous conditions. > > But the idiot in this thread must be someone else. No he didn’t, but go ahead and exploit whatever amphiboly exists in the quote to try and make it seem that was his claim. You’ll probably convince somebody. ---
**Author:** ![superslug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@superslug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superslug)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/133 "2011-03-10T14:56:19Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > No he didn’t, but go ahead and exploit whatever amphiboly exists in the quote to try and make it seem that was his claim. You’ll probably convince somebody. So… Where’s the “irony” in a labor accident if it’s not related to the NEA? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/134 "2011-03-10T15:10:32Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > No he didn’t, but go ahead and exploit whatever amphiboly exists in the quote to try and make it seem that was his claim. You’ll probably convince somebody. Perhaps I was mistaken. What, exactly, was the relevance of his reference to the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire, then? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/135 "2011-03-10T15:13:16Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > So… Where’s the “irony” in a labor accident if it’s not related to the NEA? Assuming purely for the sake of rhetoric that your question is earnest… The base claim is “The [Republicans] want to send us back to those good old days [which enabled the conditions at the Triangle shirtwaist factory resulting in the Fire].” Because of that claim’s position in this particular thread, one may assume that **margin** feels the legislation striking public employees’ collective bargaining rights as perpetrated by the Wisconsin GOP is a point of evidence for the claim, but that rationation must be inferred by the reader. At minimum, the claim requires an argument, but at worst it is merely an undefended assertion in the general context of “public employees’ bargaining rights” and only by a leap of faith related to the very much more remote context of “public school teachers’ working conditions”. The strawman you and **Bricker** have erected to represent **margin** ’s [not yet proferred] argument seems to be the syllogism: a) Triangle factory workers had no union/collective bargaining powers, b) public school teachers (and other public employees) just had selected collective bargaining rights taken away from them in Wisconsin, therefore c) public school teachers in Wisconsin suffer the same working conditions Triangle Shirtwaist Factory workers experienced 100 years ago. Please show where **margin** has even given a bare sketch of part c) above. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/136 "2011-03-10T15:13:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You just claimed that teachers work in physically hazardous conditions. > > But the idiot in this thread must be someone else. Really? He did? I just scanned back over the thread, and cannot find such a quote. Would you like to re-phrase, and perhaps put the word “implied” in there somewhere? I know that you’re a stickler for accuracy. In the scheme of things, you have to admit, **Bricker** , that there is a movement among the right-wing to eliminate unions or remove their bargaining rights. Perhaps there is not an absolute desire to return to burning workers to death (look up hyperbole sometime), but they do want the pendulum to swing nonetheless. Swiing WAAYYY to the other side. And the recent influx of those from some godforsaken board or other should give you a clue that there are plenty of folk out there, supposedly in **your** party who are far to the right of you. They do not have moderation in mind. They don’t want to have the power of unions tempered somewhat. They want unions eliminated. Entirely. We have heard that “unions don’t matter anymore”. “workers will be protected by companies anyway”. “'We can never return to those times”. Well guess what. Yes we can return to those times. Perhaps, as I said, not to the times of workers burning to death. But certainly towards low wages, no benefits, poor working conditions and no ability to complain to management. This is the end game that your compatriots are hoping for. Why? Not because they are “evil” or even “bad”. But because it will give them more money, more profit, and a larger share of the pie that they already have a huge share of. It’s human nature. Greed is Good. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/137 "2011-03-10T15:13:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You just claimed that teachers work in physically hazardous conditions. > > But the idiot in this thread must be someone else. I think we found him. Because you like to pretend to be too stupid to understand something when you disagree with it, I’ll engage your little kabuki dance and explain it to you so you can drop the idiot mask. Unions are the reason we have good work conditions today. Destroying unions is an attempt to walk back the progress we’ve made. But you knew that. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/138 "2011-03-10T15:18:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You just claimed that teachers work in physically hazardous conditions. > > But the idiot in this thread must be someone else. Show me where I said that, you liar. Go ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/139 "2011-03-10T15:40:57Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Assuming purely for the sake of rhetoric that your question is earnest… > > The base claim is “The [Republicans] want to send us back to those good old days [which enabled the conditions at the Triangle shirtwaist factory resulting in the Fire].” Because of that claim’s position in this particular thread, one may assume that **margin** feels the legislation striking public employees’ collective bargaining rights as perpetrated by the Wisconsin GOP is a point of evidence for the claim, but that rationation must be inferred by the reader. > > At minimum, the claim requires an argument, but at worst it is merely an undefended assertion in the general context of “public employees’ bargaining rights” and only by a leap of faith related to the very much more remote context of “public school teachers’ working conditions”. > > The strawman you and **Bricker** have erected to represent **margin** ’s [not yet proferred] argument seems to be the syllogism: > a) Triangle factory workers had no union/collective bargaining powers, > b) public school teachers (and other public employees) just had selected collective bargaining rights taken away from them in Wisconsin, therefore > c) public school teachers in Wisconsin suffer the same working conditions Triangle Shirtwaist Factory workers experienced 100 years ago. > > Please show where **margin** has even given a bare sketch of part c) above. I certainly hope **margin** appreciates the substantial assistance you have given his argument. I find it equally likely – indeed, more so, given **margin** ’s sub-standard intellect – that he simply meant that the outcome from this bill is that teachers will work is physically hazardous conditions. Now, if I were to imagine that **margin** could understand and adopt your argument as his own, perhaps I might be moved to acknowledge that it’s unlikely. But merely because you have to savvy and wit to construct a palatable argument for **margin** does not mean that this is what **margin** meant in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/140 "2011-03-10T15:41:57Z")
> [@margin](#): > > Show me where I said that, you liar. Go ahead. Sure: > [@margin](#): > > Jeez, we’re coming up on the hundredth anniversary of the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire. The Repubs want to send us back to those good old days. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111.md?page=8)