# Wisconsin GOP passes union-stripping bill **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 10, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111 "2011-03-10T00:56:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/141 "2011-03-10T15:46:13Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I know that you’re a stickler for accuracy. > > In the scheme of things, you have to admit, **Bricker** , that there is a movement among the right-wing to eliminate unions or remove their bargaining rights. Perhaps there is not an absolute desire to return to burning workers to death (look up hyperbole sometime), but they do want the pendulum to swing nonetheless. Oh, it was _hyperbole_. Well, that’s a better description than “irresponsible accusatory bullshit,” I grant. And at only four syllables instead of twelve, it’s cheaper too, if one assumes there’s a per-syllable charge for such things. But see: when called on hyperbole, the sane and responsible poster will admit, “OK, that was hyperbole. But my ACTUAL point remains: …” Much as you have done. You’ve identified the actual point: that there is a movement among the right-wing to eliminate unions or remove their bargaining rights. We could argue that point, except that I concede its truth, so the argument would be short. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/142 "2011-03-10T15:50:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …given **margin** ’s sub-standard intellect… … if I were to imagine that **margin** could understand and adopt your argument as his own… > _ad nauseum_ Y’know, condescension of this magnitude would seem more convincing were it coming from someone other than a willing ally to **superslug** , **the Messiah** and **Unca Thomas**. The fact is, **margin** made no argument resembling the one you manufactured for him. The fact is other posters here with “savvy and wit” infer the same argument I did. Whatever your perceptions of any specific interlocutor, _your_ arguments must rest on actual evidence. You’ve offered no such evidence in support of your interpretation of **margin** ’s claim. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/143 "2011-03-10T15:51:07Z")
So what’s the incentive now to become a state worker in Wisconsin? As far back as I remember there was always a trade off when taking a government job. Sure the pay may be sub-par compared to the private sector and opportunities for advancement are leaner and slower but the trade-off was always the benefits of job security, pensions, etc. You strip those away and suddenly why in the world would anybody want to work for the state? Wisconsin thinks it has problems now wait till this completely strips them of any talented work pool they had. Good luck with prospective employees they’re going to attract. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/144 "2011-03-10T15:54:57Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Y’know, condescension of this magnitude would seem more convincing were it coming from someone other than a willing ally to **superslug** , **the Messiah** and **Unca Thomas**. > > The fact is, **margin** made no argument resembling the one you manufactured for him. The fact is other posters here with “savvy and wit” infer the same argument I did. Whatever your perceptions of any specific interlocutor, _your_ arguments must rest on actual evidence. You’ve offered no such evidence in support of your interpretation of **margin** ’s claim. Sure I did: **margin** ’s reference to the Triangle disaster, combined with his refusal – even now, in light of the subsequent discussion – to admit that was hyperbole. I’ll believe that wasn’t his intent if he comes along and says, “Yeah, that was hyperbole.” But he won’t, because he’s too incompetent to look up ‘hyperbole’ and sound out all the big words in the definition. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/145 "2011-03-10T15:59:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Oh, it was _hyperbole_. Actually, since we’re being righteously superior, no it wasn’t hyperbole. **margin** didn’t say “The GOP wants to burn workers to death”, he claimed that they want to return us to the “good old days” of no unions and no labor protections. That he gives the Triangle fire as a likely consequence of a return to those conditions is not even _marginally_ (heh) hyperbolic. More of a “no shit” expectation based on historical data. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/146 "2011-03-10T16:00:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure I did: **margin** ’s reference to the Triangle disaster, combined with his refusal – even now, in light of the subsequent discussion – to admit that was hyperbole. I’ll believe that wasn’t his intent if he comes along and says, “Yeah, that was hyperbole.” > > But he won’t, because he’s too incompetent to look up ‘hyperbole’ and sound out all the big words in the definition. Oh oh, Bricker woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Get a cup of coffee and calm down. You’re acting like a doucebag. More than usual, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/147 "2011-03-10T16:35:34Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Oh oh, Bricker woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Get a cup of coffee and calm down. You’re acting like a doucebag. More than usual, I mean. It’s not an act. He _is_ a douchebag, not the least of which is because he _knows_ I’m a woman, and I’ve called him out repeatedly for his sexist dogwhistles. I’m not sure if he’s so distracted by the fumes from his own bullshit or what, but he’s skipped the usual sexism. The way he lies about what I said is proof. The fact that he bloviates on and ON and motherfucking ON is just a cherry on top. Bricker hopes that if he uses enough words, people will forget who he sides what, what he’s defending----union-busting, lying, conservative human rights violations, etc., etc.,----and focus instead on picking part his pretentious bullshit. It’s a constant. He’ll follow this up with charges of hysteria, mental illness, various insults, more bloviating, more long-winded lectures while he faps away, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/148 "2011-03-10T16:41:45Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Actually, since we’re being righteously superior, no it wasn’t hyperbole. **margin** didn’t say “The GOP wants to burn workers to death”, he claimed that they want to return us to the “good old days” of no unions and no labor protections. That he gives the Triangle fire as a likely consequence of a return to those conditions is not even _marginally_ (heh) hyperbolic. More of a “no shit” expectation based on historical data. So let’s be clear: you’re actually claiming that the likely result of the current legislation is a return to working conditions that resulted in the Triangle fire? OK, question: by what convoluted path does OSHA vanish? Does Harry Potter Apport in and shout “Expelliamos!” at them? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/149 "2011-03-10T16:45:03Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Oh oh, Bricker woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Get a cup of coffee and calm down. You’re acting like a doucebag. More than usual, I mean. Your side of idiots just refused to back down from the claim that the “likely result” of this legislation is a return to the days of no workplace safety rules. It’s a “no shit,” certainty. If this were just **margin** , I’d be bemused and casually dismissive; **margin** requiring no serious thought. But **xenophon41** surprises me. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/150 "2011-03-10T16:45:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So let’s be clear: you’re actually claiming that the likely result of the current legislation is a return to working conditions that resulted in the Triangle fire? > > OK, question: by what convoluted path does OSHA vanish? Does Harry Potter Apport in and shout “Expelliamos!” at them? It’s fun to watch Bricker get so picky and anal when dealing with his opponents, whlie with his favorite political party he’s expansive and forgiving. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/151 "2011-03-10T16:46:17Z")
> [@margin](#): > > It’s not an act. He _is_ a douchebag, not the least of which is because he _knows_ I’m a woman, and I’ve called him out repeatedly for his sexist dogwhistles. I’m not sure if he’s so distracted by the fumes from his own bullshit or what, but he’s skipped the usual sexism. > > The way he lies about what I said is proof. The fact that he bloviates on and ON and motherfucking ON is just a cherry on top. Bricker hopes that if he uses enough words, people will forget who he sides what, what he’s defending----union-busting, lying, conservative human rights violations, etc., etc.,----and focus instead on picking part his pretentious bullshit. It’s a constant. He’ll follow this up with charges of hysteria, mental illness, various insults, more bloviating, more long-winded lectures while he faps away, and so on. Of what relevance is your gender? I assumed your stupidity came from your lack of wit – I doubt your ovaries have anything to do with it, although if you think they do, go ahead and make the case; perhaps I’ll become convinced that your lack of a Y chromosome earns you a pass, although I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/152 "2011-03-10T16:51:54Z")
Jesus **Bricker**! I was hoping that you could be a good influence on the recent influx of mouth-breathing morons/socks and trolls from some unmoderated board, but I see now I was mistaken. They’re teaching you to be an illogical asshole. It’s like when your kid goes to play with some potty-mouthed tots from down the block. One hopes that your child will be a good influence on them. But nooooo. He comes home and says “What’s for fucking dinner?” ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/153 "2011-03-10T16:54:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So let’s be clear: you’re actually claiming that the likely result of the current legislation is a return to working conditions that resulted in the Triangle fire? > > OK, question: by what convoluted path does OSHA vanish? Does Harry Potter Apport in and shout “Expelliamos!” at them? You know, you keep saying there are laws on the books and recent history is already showing that all you have to do to nullify that regulation is defund enforcement and shout “regulation strips jobs”. That’s how OSHA vanishes. I’ve never been in a trade shop where OSHA issues didn’t take a back seat to getting the job done. And I’ve been in dozens. In one shop, the account had a fire with major smoke damage throughout the building because like most, their waste cans weren’t kept OSHA-compliant. If the laws and regulations aren’t enforced, they’re moot. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/154 "2011-03-10T17:03:57Z")
**Bricker** , why is it that you always have to pick times proximate to my posting to defend or excuse you in some other thread to turn into “Supersnotty Right-Wing Condescender”? ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/155 "2011-03-10T17:09:51Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > **Bricker** , “Supersnotty Right-Wing Condescender”? Well, \*that’s \* certainly a very specific superhero name. I can hardly wait to see the costume. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/156 "2011-03-10T17:17:40Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > **Bricker** , why is it that you always have to pick times proximate to my posting to defend or excuse you in some other thread to turn into “Supersnotty Right-Wing Condescender”? Not sure… bad luck, maybe? Look, argue intelligently with me and I always return the courtesy. **margin** is a useless waste of oxygen. I refuse to pretend that any of her foolish little turds dropped into the thread here and there like a diarrheatic pigeon can be mistaken for actual argument. If she miraculously manages to say something useful, I’ll address it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/157 "2011-03-10T17:20:19Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Jesus **Bricker**! I was hoping that you could be a good influence on the recent influx of mouth-breathing morons/socks and trolls from some unmoderated board, but I see now I was mistaken. They’re teaching you to be an illogical asshole. > > It’s like when your kid goes to play with some potty-mouthed tots from down the block. One hopes that your child will be a good influence on them. But nooooo. He comes home and says “What’s for fucking dinner?” Again: if someone has an actual point to make, I’ll address it. So far, other people have, and I have responded to them with rebuttal. **margin** – crimmney, even you must admit that **margin** is a useless twittering fool, programmed like a monkey to respond with whatever vacuous phrases she;s read recently, as long as they don’t exceed her syllable count (four for dumb repetition; one for actual understanding). Ask yourself, honestly: if **margin** were adopting the same level of (heh heh heh) intelligence, but advancing a right wing viewpoint, how quickly would you and a dozen others tear her to shreds? You tolerate her foolishness because she’s spouting the company line. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/158 "2011-03-10T17:22:43Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > You know, you keep saying there are laws on the books and recent history is already showing that all you have to do to nullify that regulation is defund enforcement and shout “regulation strips jobs”. > > That’s how OSHA vanishes. > > I’ve never been in a trade shop where OSHA issues didn’t take a back seat to getting the job done. And I’ve been in dozens. In one shop, the account had a fire with major smoke damage throughout the building because like most, their waste cans weren’t kept OSHA-compliant. > > If the laws and regulations aren’t enforced, they’re moot. And it’s your contention, is it, that the fact that OSHA will vanish by this method is so certain, so utterly beyond the realm of debate that it’s fairly described as a “…‘no shit’ expectation based on historical data?” ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/159 "2011-03-10T17:27:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And it’s your contention, is it, that the fact that OSHA will vanish by this method is so certain, so utterly beyond the realm of debate that it’s fairly described as a “…‘no shit’ expectation based on historical data?” No, I’m telling you that if OSHA is poorly enforced now, it will be even more poorly enforced in a climate where it is defunded and/or the regulatory resources are directed elsewhere. The law can only protect if it is enforced. Defunding is the new method for nullifying regulatory laws on the books. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/160 "2011-03-10T17:28:09Z")
> [@](#): > > At a Feb. 15 House Subcommittee on Workforce Protections hearing on OSHA’s regulatory agenda and its impact on job creation, witnesses slammed the agency for exploring new regulations that could damage businesses, imposing “substantial burdens” on employers without regard to cost concerns and overlooking the interests of small businesses. > “Worker safety is a goal we all share,” said Subcommittee Chairman Tim Walberg, R-Mich. “However, we have real concerns with the policies and process the administration has recently proposed to reach that goal.” … > > … In his testimony, Thomas M. Sullivan, an attorney who runs the Small Business Coalition for Regulatory Relief, criticized OSHA for not fully considering how some regulations – such as the now-withdrawn proposal to add an MSD column to the OSHA 300 log – will affect small businesses. > > “Small businesses felt that OSHA’s cost estimate [of the MSD column proposal] reflected a misunderstanding of how small employers work and the pressure that employers feel when writing down a number on a form for the federal government,” he said. …[RIGHT][CITE](http://ehstoday.com/standards/osha/house-hearing-criticizes-osha-jobs-business-0216/)[/RIGHT] Hmm, why would that be? > [@](#): > > On Jan. 25, OSHA announced that it has temporarily withdrawn its proposal to restore a column for work-related musculoskeletal disorders (MSD) on employer injury and illness logs, citing concerns from small businesses. … > > … According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, MSDs accounted for 28 percent of all reported workplace injuries and illnesses requiring time away from work in 2009. …[RIGHT][CITE](http://safetydirector.wordpress.com/2011/01/27/osha-withdrawals-proposal-to-add-msd-column-on-injury-logs/)[/RIGHT] Oh, that would be why. CMC fnord! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111.md?page=9)