# Wisconsin GOP passes union-stripping bill **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 10, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111 "2011-03-10T00:56:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/161 "2011-03-10T17:29:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And it’s your contention, is it, that the fact that OSHA will vanish by this method is so certain, so utterly beyond the realm of debate that it’s fairly described as a “…‘no shit’ expectation based on historical data?” Please give an example of an improved working enviroment not related to pressure from government laws or worker unions or expected pressure from same. Unions are being removed and deregulation is a big Republican ideal. On what basis is your belief that OSHA will not be eroded into non-existance in the name of “saving a few dollars here and there” built? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/162 "2011-03-10T17:30:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So let’s be clear: you’re actually claiming that the likely result of the current legislation is a return to working conditions that resulted in the Triangle fire? > > OK, question: by what convoluted path does OSHA vanish? Does Harry Potter Apport in and shout “Expelliamos!” at them? So, are you now constructing an argument for me, to join Mr. Working C. Scarecrow who you built to stand in for **margin**? My argument, to be very very clear for you since you seem to be on a “pretend I’m stupid enough to believe my paraphrase is your argument” kick: Republicans have, as not secret at all and quite publicly defended goals, the ultimate elimination (or complete marginalization) of labor unions, and the ultimate reversal (or complete emasculation through defunding or legislative restriction of gov’t agencies) of environmental, health and safety regulations. I do not offer some sort of slippery slope argument about collective bargaining or _hyperbolic_ reaction regarding the direct effects of the titular Wisconsin bill examined in this thread. I’m speaking of the conditions that will inevitably result from the stated conservative goal of rolling back the worker protections and empowering organizations built up in the 20th Century to return to the regulatory environment and ownership slanted power structures of the 19th Century. Invoke Harry Potter all you want. Maybe his wand pointing and Latinate sounding shouts will reinforce your handwaving and America’s gilded age history will ‘disappeariandum’ forthwith. > [@Bricker](#): > > (_addressed to **AlienVessels** _) > And it’s your contention, is it, that the fact that OSHA will vanish by this method is so certain, so utterly beyond the realm of debate that it’s fairly described as a “…‘no shit’ expectation based on historical data?” It’s **my** contention that OSHA will vanish if the GOP is allowed to fulfill their stated goal of _making OSHA vanish_. Yeah, that’s a “no shit” expectation. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/163 "2011-03-10T17:33:36Z")
> [@margin](#): > > Well, \*that’s \* certainly a very specific superhero name. I can hardly wait to see the costume. I hope it comes with a cape. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/164 "2011-03-10T17:35:22Z")
I think you gotta be some kind of stupid to not know that Republicans would dearly love to entirely eliminate OSHA. If you’re in denial about this then you’re either an asshole or an imbecile, or more likely both. The Wisconsin Ash Wednesday Massacre is but one step on that journey. Get rid of the unions, then get rid of the minimum wage, then get rid of OSHA. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/165 "2011-03-10T17:38:09Z")
Just where the hell do you think the Republican ideals of: Weakening/eliminating unions Defunding/eliminating regulatory agencies Will logically lead? Ideal working conditions for all? Increased safety? Being of the opinion that unsafe/bad working conditions can never happen again if we remove current safeguards is nothing more than magical thinking. ---
**Author:** ![3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/47e85d/32.png) [@3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3_20_59_or_bust)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/166 "2011-03-10T17:38:12Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I hope it comes with a cape. Yeah, I got it. And I agree. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/167 "2011-03-10T17:38:35Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think you gotta be some kind of stupid to not know that Republicans would dearly love to entirely eliminate OSHA. If you’re in denial about this then you’re either an asshole or an imbecile, or more likely both. The Wisconsin Ash Wednesday Massacre is but one step on that journey. Get rid of the unions, then get rid of the minimum wage, then get rid of OSHA. Then get rid of the FDA, the Dept. of Labor, the EPA, the Dept. of Education, the Dept. of Energy…all of those little annoyances that the overlords don’t like. Bonus points for making sure the public schools only produce dim automatons who won’t ever question their proper rulers. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/168 "2011-03-10T17:39:29Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Republicans have, as not secret at all and quite publicly defended goals, the ultimate elimination (or complete marginalization) of labor unions, and the ultimate reversal (or complete emasculation through defunding or legislative restriction of gov’t agencies) of environmental, health and safety regulations. I do not offer some sort of slippery slope argument about collective bargaining or _hyperbolic_ reaction regarding the direct effects of the titular Wisconsin bill examined in this thread. > > I’m speaking of the conditions that will inevitably result from the stated conservative goal of rolling back the worker protections and empowering organizations built up in the 20th Century to return to the regulatory environment and ownership slanted power structures of the 19th Century. A few states are now looking to repeal child labor laws. Cuz you know the damn commies are standing in the way of a proper market by keeping kids out of the work force. Bastards… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/169 "2011-03-10T17:39:38Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > No, I’m telling you that if OSHA is poorly enforced now, it will be even more poorly enforced in a climate where it is defunded and/or the regulatory resources are directed elsewhere. > > The law can only protect if it is enforced. Defunding is the new method for nullifying regulatory laws on the books. OK. And the Wisconsin legislature passing a law eliminating the ability of Wisconsin public employees to collectively bargain advances to goal of defunding OSHA… how? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/170 "2011-03-10T17:41:39Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think you gotta be some kind of stupid to not know that Republicans would dearly love to entirely eliminate OSHA. If you’re in denial about this then you’re either an asshole or an imbecile, or more likely both. The Wisconsin Ash Wednesday Massacre is but one step on that journey. Get rid of the unions, then get rid of the minimum wage, then get rid of OSHA. Cite? And even if I accept this as true without your having to reproduce the secret GOP meetings you are somehow privvy to… even then, you don’t contend that the Wisconsin vote result leads inevitably to the destruction of OSHA, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/171 "2011-03-10T17:42:59Z")
Hey **Bricker** , take the blinders off. It’s a good look for you and all, but seeing only a tiny, narrow part of the argument is probably bad for you. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/172 "2011-03-10T17:44:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK. And the Wisconsin legislature passing a law eliminating the ability of Wisconsin public employees to collectively bargain advances to goal of defunding OSHA… how? It is part of a larger republican assault. Currently there are measures to kill unions, repeal child labor laws, restrict voting of young people and outright removal of elected representatives by fiat. I am sure I am missing some but that is more than enough. In short, it is a concerted effort by republicans to consolidate power among a few and not be bothered by pesky rules or laws. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/173 "2011-03-10T17:44:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK. And the Wisconsin legislature passing a law eliminating the ability of Wisconsin public employees to collectively bargain advances to goal of defunding OSHA… how? …there’s nobody to complain when it happens? And please don’t say, “But the public will complain!” The majority of Wisconsin voters were against this bill and they passed it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/174 "2011-03-10T17:46:48Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > Please give an example of an improved working enviroment not related to pressure from government laws or worker unions or expected pressure from same. Sure. [http://images.businessweek.com/ss/07/10/1014\_office\_collaborative/source/5.htm](http://images.businessweek.com/ss/07/10/1014_office_collaborative/source/5.htm) Not seeing much union pressure there, nor any laws requiring ping pong tables. The company did that to make themselves more attractive to workers. Of their own free will. > [@](#): > > Unions are being removed and deregulation is a big Republican ideal. On what basis is your belief that OSHA will not be eroded into non-existance in the name of “saving a few dollars here and there” built? A gratuitous assertion may, in debate, be equally gratuitously denied. It’s up to YOU to show the basis for any claim that eliminating OSHA is a Republican plan. Since it’s so obviously their goal, I’m sure there must be dozens of references to link to. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/175 "2011-03-10T17:49:05Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > …there’s nobody to complain when it happens? And please don’t say, “But the public will complain!” The majority of Wisconsin voters were against this bill and they passed it anyway. Ay, yet another canard. This reverence you seem to have for the majority viewpoint – how far does it go? Because it sure seemed like the majority view didn’t mean shit when Prop 8 was being attacked in California. The public has every right to complain, by voting out the dastardly legislators that did this in the next election. Are you afraid they won’t do that? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/176 "2011-03-10T17:49:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK. And the Wisconsin legislature passing a law eliminating the ability of Wisconsin public employees to collectively bargain advances to goal of defunding OSHA… how? Rick, you are NOT this stupid. Connect those dots. It’s not even just about collective bargaining. It’s about breaking the back of the unions completely. Let me help you. Which party is supportive of OSHA, safety regulation, environmental regulation, etc.? The Democrats (generally…there is a corporatist wing of the Dems, too, but we’re simplifying for clarity here). Who is the largest supporter of Democrats among the 10 largest political donators? Unions. Destroy unions, destroy Democrats. Destroy Democrats, destroy OSHA, safety regulation, environmental regulation, etc. 40 years ago, there were actually Republicans who were for those things, too. Hell, RICHARD NIXON was for a lot of those things (even if they were more “go along with” than “sincere personal belief”). The Republican Party has changed in the last 40 years…even you have to admit that. In the last 17 years, they’ve gotten a lot more right-wing. In the last three years, they’ve gotten a lot crazier. Even relatively moderate Republicans have been voting in lockstep with their Bircher-level colleagues because they’re afraid of the jolly bunch of insane idiots with their signs and costumes, and the jolly bunch of ravening mercenaries with a microphone or tv camera. Olympia Snow, for gosh sakes, isn’t going to survive her primary fight next year. Nelson Rockefeller would have been ritually crucified at CPAC. If the Republicans didn’t make a cottage industry out of mythologizing Reagan, HE wouldn’t be right-wing enough for the modern GOP. Frankly, my opinion is that the Republican party of today is the single worst party anyone who doesn’t make $500,000 a year could possibly vote for. Or, for that matter, the single worst party than anyone who isn’t white, male, Christian and straight, could possibly vote for. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/177 "2011-03-10T17:50:44Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Hey **Bricker** , take the blinders off. It’s a good look for you and all, but seeing only a tiny, narrow part of the argument is probably bad for you. What’s the overall argument? That there’s a vast movement of GOP force, that the majority of voters hate, but are too stupid to vote against when given the chance, and it plans to accomplish all these disconnected things? Seriously – go ahead and lay out the big picture. Show me what I’m missing. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/178 "2011-03-10T17:50:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The public has every right to complain, by voting out the dastardly legislators that did this in the next election. I’m pretty sure we won’t have to wait that long. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/179 "2011-03-10T17:53:51Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Rick, you are NOT this stupid. Connect those dots. It’s not even just about collective bargaining. It’s about breaking the back of the unions completely. > > Let me help you. Which party is supportive of OSHA, safety regulation, environmental regulation, etc.? The Democrats (generally…there is a corporatist wing of the Dems, too, but we’re simplifying for clarity here). Who is the largest supporter of Democrats among the 10 largest political donators? Unions. Destroy unions, destroy Democrats. Destroy Democrats, destroy OSHA, safety regulation, environmental regulation, etc. > > 40 years ago, there were actually Republicans who were for those things, too. Hell, RICHARD NIXON was for a lot of those things (even if they were more “go along with” than “sincere personal belief”). The Republican Party has changed in the last 40 years…even you have to admit that. In the last 17 years, they’ve gotten a lot more right-wing. In the last three years, they’ve gotten a lot crazier. Even relatively moderate Republicans have been voting in lockstep with their Bircher-level colleagues because they’re afraid of the jolly bunch of insane idiots with their signs and costumes, and the jolly bunch of ravening mercenaries with a microphone or tv camera. Olympia Snow, for gosh sakes, isn’t going to survive her primary fight next year. Nelson Rockefeller would have been ritually crucified at CPAC. If the Republicans didn’t make a cottage industry out of mythologizing Reagan, HE wouldn’t be right-wing enough for the modern GOP. > > Frankly, my opinion is that the Republican party of today is the single worst party anyone who doesn’t make $500,000 a year could possibly vote for. Or, for that matter, the single worst party than anyone who isn’t white, male, Christian and straight, could possibly vote for. I’m not white. I don’t make $500,000 per year. Admittedly I’m Christian, male, and straight. My wife, when she becomes a citizen, will only fit “Christian” and “straight” and she will most assuredly vote GOP. And it seems to me that the Log Cabin Republicans were the plaintiffs in the lawsuit that destroyed DADT. Their female plaintiffs don’t fit any category you name at all! Gee, could it be that your opinion is simply that, and that people of good faith can disagree without being evil or stupid? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/180 "2011-03-10T17:55:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What’s the overall argument? That there’s a vast movement of GOP force, that the majority of voters hate, but are too stupid to vote against when given the chance, and it plans to accomplish all these disconnected things? > > Seriously – go ahead and lay out the big picture. Show me what I’m missing. Yes the voters are too stupid to vote against them because they are worried about fags marrying somewhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111.md?page=10)