# Wisconsin orders arrest of missing Democrats. Legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 3, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396 "2011-03-03T19:15:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/1 "2011-03-03T19:15:51Z")
(This may be a GQ question but given the political heat surrounding this figured GD was better…feel free to move if I posted here in error.) According to the Wisconsin State journal: > [@](#): > > The Wisconsin Senate passed a resolution Thursday ordering the arrest of the 14 Democratic senators who left the state two weeks ago to avoid a vote on Gov. Scott Walker’s controversial budget repair bill. > > It’s unclear whether the move to force the senators back to the Capitol is constitutional. The state Constitution prohibits the arrest of legislators while in session unless they’re suspected of committing felonies, treason or breach of the peace. > > James Troupis, a private attorney hired by Fitzgerald, contended Thursday that the move is legal. He cited a portion of the state Constitution that provides that each house “may compel the attendance of absent members.” > > SOURCE: [Senate orders arrest of missing Democrats](http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_8d9ad090-45bd-11e0-bf68-001cc4c03286.html?mode=story) So, is that legal? If it is legal would that oblige any other state to arrest those senators on Wisconsin’s behalf and send them back to Wisconsin? If other states technically would have an obligation (assuming for the moment they do) and the other state ignores it is there anything that could be done about it? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/2 "2011-03-03T19:22:39Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If it is legal would that oblige any other state to arrest those senators on Wisconsin’s behalf and send them back to Wisconsin? I doubt it. Assuming it’s constitutionally allowed, it still seems, to me, to be a state procedural matter. If the missing representatives were accused of (or wanted for), an actual crime, I think it might be a different story. Then, we’d be talking about extradition. (Compare this to someone who is wanted for murder in Wisconsin, and is known to be hiding out in Illinois.) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/3 "2011-03-03T19:34:55Z")
Can legislators actually order an arrest through legislation? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/4 "2011-03-03T19:38:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Can legislators actually order an arrest through legislation? And if arrested, is it proper to bring them to the legislative chambers instead of to the police station to be processed? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/5 "2011-03-03T19:42:22Z")
How did they pass the legislation without a quorum? ---
**Author:** ![howye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/6 "2011-03-03T19:43:50Z")
Can a “resolution” passed by one chamber of a two-chamber body be legally binding, even if all other things were passed muster? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/7 "2011-03-03T19:44:28Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Can legislators actually order an arrest through legislation? Can’t the US Congress send federal marshals after AWOL members to force a quorum? Of course Wisconsin is not the Feds but presumably they’d compel attendance the same way (I am guessing…I have no clue). ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/8 "2011-03-03T19:45:29Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > How did they pass the legislation without a quorum? As I recall they can pass legislation that doesn’t impact the budget without a quorum. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/9 "2011-03-03T19:45:43Z")
I don’t think so (of course, that’s just a WAG on my part since I’m not a lawyer nor do I play one on the SD), but the broader issues is what recourse does Wisconsin have in this situation? This seems to have short circuited the process, and I could see this as a tactic used more heavily by a political party who is in the minority to circumvent the system in the future on any legislature the minority party doesn’t agree with but knows will get passed because they don’t have the votes to block it in the traditional and explicit way. Out of curiosity, does the Senate and Congress have similar rules that a certain number of people must be present or a vote can’t be taken? What other states have a set up similar to Wisconsin? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/10 "2011-03-03T19:46:58Z")
Which judge would see their case? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/11 "2011-03-03T19:50:31Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Out of curiosity, does the Senate and Congress have similar rules that a certain number of people must be present or a vote can’t be taken? What other states have a set up similar to Wisconsin? It’s Wiki so grain of salt and all that but seems to answer some of this (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > A call of the house is a motion which can be adopted by a deliberative assembly that has the authority to compel the attendance of its members in the absence of a quorum. The effect of the adoption of this motion is that the president of the assembly makes out arrest warrants which authorize the sergeant-at-arms to arrest any or all absent members and bring them to the meeting hall so that a quorum may be present. This motion is usually seen in houses of legislatures, such as the United States Senate. > > The act of a group of legislators deliberately failing to attend a legislative voting session to prevent quorum is sometimes used in situations where a group of representatives wants to delay or prevent passage of a bill that is almost certain to pass, and the dissenting representatives are in the minority and would otherwise be unable to stop the bill through normal legistlative processes. This is discussed in more detail in the quorum article. > > **In state legislatures of the United States, a call of the house can be evaded by quorum-busters by leaving their state. Entering a neighboring state places them outside the jurisdiction their own state’s law enforcement, thus allowing them to prevent a quorum for as long as they are willing to remain away from home.** > > SOURCE: [Quorum - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_the_house) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/12 "2011-03-03T19:56:04Z")
Two distinct, connected meanings of “arrest”. One is “the power to compel presence before a court or the legislature.” In this sense you can be arrested as a material witness, a prospective juror or witness ignoring a summons, etc. The other is the related “the power to detain a person alleged to have committed a crime, to answer the allegation before a competent court.” Many if not most or all legislative bodies have the power to compel absent members to attend, an arrest in the first sense. The verb has multiple meanings with a common sense of “compel to halt (and do something in accordance with law)”, as exemplified by the fact that stop signs in Quebec arrest motorists in the generic sense of the verb. ---
**Author:** ![Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swords_to_Plowshares)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/13 "2011-03-03T20:00:05Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I don’t think so (of course, that’s just a WAG on my part since I’m not a lawyer nor do I play one on the SD), but the broader issues is what recourse does Wisconsin have in this situation? This seems to have short circuited the process, and I could see this as a tactic used more heavily by a political party who is in the minority to circumvent the system in the future on any legislature the minority party doesn’t agree with but knows will get passed because they don’t have the votes to block it in the traditional and explicit way. > > -XT At least in WI this only works for bills that alter the budget. Right now the Republicans can pass any bill they want that is not related to the budget. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/14 "2011-03-03T20:44:04Z")
Why can’t the Republicans just pass the non-budget parts that relate to the unions without a quorum and then deal with the budget parts separately? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/15 "2011-03-03T21:09:41Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Why can’t the Republicans just pass the non-budget parts that relate to the unions without a quorum and then deal with the budget parts separately? Probably because the union parts that are non-budget related are rather unpopular, and the GOP would rather not pass a highly unpopular bill by themselves without the cover of “we fixed the budget”. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/16 "2011-03-03T21:43:46Z")
According to [this website](http://biggovernment.com/publius/2011/03/03/wisconsin-senate-gop-orders-arrest-of-awol-democrats/) (the veracity of which is unknown to me): > [@](#): > > It’s unclear whether the resolution to force the senators back to the Capitol is constitutional. The state Constitution prohibits the arrest of legislators while in session unless they’re suspected of committing felonies, treason or breach of the peace. Unless the legislators have been acting up while in Illinois, I don’t think they can be charged with felonies, treason or breach of peace. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/17 "2011-03-03T22:03:40Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Can’t the US Congress send federal marshals after AWOL members to force a quorum? But not into Canada. These Legislators have crossed the Wisconsin state line, and are now in another jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/18 "2011-03-03T22:36:48Z")
They still have to step foot into Wisconsin. It is all show. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/19 "2011-03-04T00:27:26Z")
\*slight hijack…Could they start expelling members for failing to attend? After expelling one or two Dems, then they would have the required quorum. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/20 "2011-03-04T01:52:13Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > \*slight hijack…Could they start expelling members for failing to attend? After expelling one or two Dems, then they would have the required quorum. That is the plan. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396.md?page=2)