# Wisconsin orders arrest of missing Democrats. Legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 3, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396 "2011-03-03T19:15:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/21 "2011-03-04T03:26:28Z")
What I wonder is how long can they be living outside of their Senate district before they run into residency requirements? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/22 "2011-03-04T05:41:06Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > What I wonder is how long can they be living outside of their Senate district before they run into residency requirements? Forever, if desired. You have to reside in the district at the time of the election (and for at least a year prior), but once elected, you are the Legislator chosen by the voters. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/23 "2011-03-04T06:20:20Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > \*slight hijack…Could they start expelling members for failing to attend? After expelling one or two Dems, then they would have the required quorum. How can you expel without a quorum? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/24 "2011-03-04T06:23:03Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Forever, if desired. Presumably you mean “forever” in the sense of until the end of the term, right? Residency requirements would again apply at the next election. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/25 "2011-03-04T06:36:08Z")
Sounds like a bill of attainder to me. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/26 "2011-03-04T06:54:58Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > How can you expel without a quorum? Wisconsin Legislature only requires quorum on bills relating to budget & spending. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/27 "2011-03-04T07:51:22Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > \*slight hijack…Could they start expelling members for failing to attend? After expelling one or two Dems, then they would have the required quorum. So they’re going to start tossing out officials that the people of Wisconsin have duly elected. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/28 "2011-03-04T11:55:58Z")
> [@Cyberhwk](#): > > So they’re going to start tossing out officials that the people of Wisconsin have duly elected. Wow. Well, I’m not suggesting it, but they have been absent from work for a while. Try leaving at your job for three weeks just because you don’t like what the boss is doing. The people duly elected them to be in the Senate chamber. I’ve seen far worse excuses for political tricks. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/29 "2011-03-04T13:22:58Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Well, I’m not suggesting it, but they have been absent from work for a while. Try leaving at your job for three weeks just because you don’t like what the boss is doing. > > The people duly elected them to be in the Senate chamber. I’ve seen far worse excuses for political tricks. Legislators are chosen by the electorate. If the legislator has not done their job it is the electorate who will fire them in the next election. Legislators cannot be “fired” midterm. Certainly not by other members of the legislature…they are not the “boss” of each other. It’d be like the one file clerk firing another file clerk because he did not show for work. They cannot do that. The only ways to get a legislator out mid-term that I am aware of is for the public to initiate a recall vote or for the legislature to impeach a sitting member. I am not sure of the rules or process surrounding impeachment in Wisconsin but I am willing to bet it takes a long time and requires at least a quorum (probably a super-majority) to pull off. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/30 "2011-03-04T13:25:38Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Well, I’m not suggesting it, but they have been absent from work for a while. Try leaving at your job for three weeks just because you don’t like what the boss is doing. Walker is not their boss. Neither is Senate ML Fitzgerald. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/31 "2011-03-04T13:29:36Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Legislators are chosen by the electorate. If the legislator has not done their job it is the electorate who will fire them in the next election. > > Legislators cannot be “fired” midterm. Certainly not by other members of the legislature…they are not the “boss” of each other. It’d be like the one file clerk firing another file clerk because he did not show for work. They cannot do that. > > The only ways to get a legislator out mid-term that I am aware of is for the public to initiate a recall vote or for the legislature to impeach a sitting member. I am not sure of the rules or process surrounding impeachment in Wisconsin but I am willing to bet it takes a long time and requires at least a quorum (probably a super-majority) to pull off. I’ll admit that I’m not familiar with Wisconsin rules, but at least at the federal level, each house can set its own rules, including rules for expulsion of a member. And while it takes a 2/3 vote at the federal level to expel a member, it is 2/3 of those present and as long as a quorum is present, the vote can continue. And, again, its not a stretch to say that a prolonged, coordinated and deliberate absence which is keeping the legislature from progressing on budget related matters is a matter worthy of expulsion. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/32 "2011-03-04T13:31:02Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Walker is not their boss. Neither is Senate ML Fitzgerald. No. The people of WI, as represented through a majority of elected Senators, are their boss. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/33 "2011-03-04T13:37:28Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I’ll admit that I’m not familiar with Wisconsin rules, but at least at the federal level, each house can set its own rules, including rules for expulsion of a member. And while it takes a 2/3 vote at the federal level to expel a member, it is 2/3 of those present and as long as a quorum is present, the vote can continue. > > And, again, its not a stretch to say that a prolonged, coordinated and deliberate absence which is keeping the legislature from progressing on budget related matters is a matter worthy of expulsion. I do not see it as 2/3 of those present but 2/3 of the chamber (all of them…at the Federal level). It is also a long, drawn out process. Anyway, without a quorum the point is moot. They definitely cannot expel without a quorum present so in this case it is a non-starter. I think it is reasonable to suppose if Walker could make this happen then he would. He hasn’t so I am guessing he can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/34 "2011-03-04T13:42:39Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Well, I’m not suggesting it, but they have been absent from work for a while. No they haven’t. They’vbe been doing their job the entire time. They haven’t taken a second off. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/35 "2011-03-04T14:15:39Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I do not see it as 2/3 of those present but 2/3 of the chamber (all of them…at the Federal level). Art. I, Sec. 5 of the US Constitution provides that a majority of each house is a quorum, which is necessary “to do business.” It also provides that a two-thirds concurrence is necessary to expel a member. I don’t see anything that makes this 2/3rds of the entire membership instead of 2/3rd of the members present, but I could be wrong. Expulsion votes have been enormously lopsided, so we don’t seem to have the benefit of a close call to settle the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/36 "2011-03-04T14:25:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Art. I, Sec. 5 of the US Constitution provides that a majority of each house is a quorum, which is necessary “to do business.” > > It also provides that a two-thirds concurrence is necessary to expel a member. > > I don’t see anything that makes this 2/3rds of the entire membership instead of 2/3rd of the members present, but I could be wrong. Expulsion votes have been enormously lopsided, so we don’t seem to have the benefit of a close call to settle the issue. Not sure how reliable this is so just a data point but all I could find in a quick search: > [@](#): > > If expulsion is the recommendation then the subcommittee’s report will be referred to the full House of Representatives or Senate where Members may vote to accept, reject, or alter the report’s recommendation. Voting to accept the recommendation of expulsion requires a 2/3 vote (290 representatives or 67 Senators) to succeed. > > SOURCE: [http://www.opencongress.org/wiki/Expulsion\_and\_censure](http://www.opencongress.org/wiki/Expulsion_and_censure) ---
**Author:** ![TransMonk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e8c25b/32.png) [@TransMonk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TransMonk)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/37 "2011-03-04T15:06:04Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No they haven’t. They’vbe been doing their job the entire time. They haven’t taken a second off. This. My state senator is in Illinois doing exactly what I elected him to do. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/38 "2011-03-04T15:09:24Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Well, I’m not suggesting it, but they have been absent from work for a while. Try leaving at your job for three weeks just because you don’t like what the boss is doing. Legislators leave their jobs for _months_ at a time in order to run for higher office, and nobody gives a shit. If that was a justification, any Wisconsin legislator who runs for national office will be fair game for expulsion. McCain and Obama were present for something like twelve Senate votes after winning their respective parties’ nominations. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/39 "2011-03-04T15:28:41Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Well, I’m not suggesting it, but they have been absent from work for a while. Try leaving at your job for three weeks just because you don’t like what the boss is doing. > > The people duly elected them to be in the Senate chamber. I’ve seen far worse excuses for political tricks. So they can be expelled for “not doing their jobs”, i.e., not being in the chamber debating and voting on proposed legislation to a standard you set? I could buy into that, provided that we hold the filibuster-threatening U.S. Senators to the same standard, and throw them out for failing to engage in honest debate and be voted down when not in the majority. Or else we can agree that tactics aimed at not allowing a measure youy oppose come to a vote you are likely to lose, is a valid political maneuvering technique. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396/40 "2011-03-04T15:55:57Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Or else we can agree that tactics aimed at not allowing a measure youy oppose come to a vote you are likely to lose, is a valid political maneuvering technique. I’ll take this option. None of you young whippersnappers remember when Byrd signed arrest warrants for 40-some Republican senators that walked out to deny the Dems a quorum? They sent the Sergeant-at-Arms to arrest Bob Packwood, who was hiding in his office, and physically carried him onto the Senate floor. Perfectly legitimate response, to a perfectly legitimate tactic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-orders-arrest-of-missing-democrats-legal/573396.md?page=3)