# Wise County Sheriff's Office, a belated 'fuck you' **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 20, 2002, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689 "2002-09-20T00:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/1 "2002-09-20T00:49:41Z")
Okay, second time around for this baby. Now, I was meaning to start a pit thread about these jokers a week or two ago but have been a little [preoccupied](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=135417) . When I went to link to the offending website, I found it had just been taken down - No apology for it, just took it down. Just because they hide their bigotry, doesn’t mean I can’t point it out though. From Google’s [cache](http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:Zsw6j6Td3REC:www.sheriff.co.wise.tx.us/gypsies.htm+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8): > [@](#): > > We have all heard about organized crime, but did you know there is an organized crime family that specializes in Fraud and has operated throughout the world for almost 2,000 years? Their success nets in millions of tax-free dollars each year. Less that 5% of their victims complain, and when they do, they are often met with laughter. Prosecution is rare. Who is this crime Family? Gypsies. Shit, all this time I thought I was a member of an ethnic group. Apparantly I’m just a member of a crime family. Let me know when I’m due my share of that tax-free wonga, okay mush. > [@](#): > > HISTORY: The name is steeped in history, and originally thought to have originated in Egypt. A Gypsy is a member of a wandering people who migrated to Europe from India in the 15th century. We have no idea how many Gypsies are operating in the United States. Their world revolves around one thing- the family business- the “Con”. Gypsies choose a lifestyle of thievery, one that is as natural to them as eating and sleeping. They look upon the rest of society as “prey”. My world revolves around caring for my family: A disabled mother and a pregnant wife. When I was a kid and travelling it revolved around getting smacked around at school (by other kids and teachers) for being a ‘Gyppo’ or a ‘Pikey’, being verbally abused by residents anywhere we stopped, watching my dad getting beat up by 6 or 7 coppers at a time and having social workers try to put me in a home. But, then again, that could part of the ‘con’. Stealing is as natural to me as eating and sleeping? Fuck off, just fuck off. And I don’t look upon the rest of society as “prey”, I do look upon the racist, bigoted, fuckwits in the Wise County Sheriff’s Dept as scum though. And can any Doper’s tell me what a ‘[Prayer Meeting](http://www.sheriff.co.wise.tx.us/crimewatch/spring_1999.htm)’ has to do with law enforcement? > [@](#): > > With the coming of summer brings the gypsy asphalt pavers as well as other scam artists. The Sheriff’s Office has already come across two different factions of pavers from Oklahoma who have been ripping off people in Wise, Denton, Tarrant, and possibly other counties in North Texas. **After apprehending these subjects, we conducted a “prayer meeting” during which time these gypsies came to the conclusion that they were not welcome in Wise County.** Unfortunately, there will most likely be other gypsies coming in throughout the summer. Remember: If these people were “worth their salt” they would not have to travel across the country in order to make a living. There are local pavers who can provide a proper paving service for those who need one. If you see any pavers, call the Sheriff’s Department. But Wise County Sheriff’s Office ain’t all that bad. They do have a policy on [Bias Profiling](http://www.sheriff.co.wise.tx.us/bias_profiling.htm) > [@](#): > > It will be the policy of the Wise County Sheriff’s Office not to condemn any citizen contacts based solely on race and address any violation of this policy with appropriate employees. > > BIAS BASED PROFILING: Bias based profiling means law enforcement initiated action based on an individual’s race, ethnicity, or national origin rather than on the individual’s behavior or on information identifying the individual as having engaged in criminal activity. Yeah, right. :rolleyes: Wise County Sheriff’s Office: Not only are you a bunch of fucking bigots, but you were stupid enough to post your bigotry on the web. I hope civil rights groups find your crappy little site (or the Google cache of it) and screw you the fuck over. Fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/2 "2002-09-20T01:16:45Z")
Shouldn’t _you_ be contacting the ACLU or some other civil rights organization instead of hoping that someone else does? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/3 "2002-09-20T01:20:43Z")
They’re not going to find the page if nobody tells them about it.[ACLU of Texas](http://www.aclutx.org/). I’m sure they’d just love to hear from you. [sub]ACLU of Texas? Isn’t that an oxymoron? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/4 "2002-09-20T01:31:59Z")
> [@](#): > > If you are approached by “Gypsies”, attempt to get a good description of the vehicle and license plate if possible. I can’t believe this was on a GOVERNMENT website. Replace the word “gypsies” on that page with “blacks” or “jews”. It would be the same thing: massive negative stereotyping of a group of people. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/5 "2002-09-20T02:29:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > \*\*Shouldn’t _you_ be contacting the ACLU or some other civil rights organization instead of hoping that someone else does? \*\* Unless he lives in Wise County and has been a victim of unfair treatment by the Sheriff department, I don’t think they could do much for him. They could force them to take down the page, but it looks as though that has happened already. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/6 "2002-09-20T02:59:11Z")
It appears that the author of this screed, Sgt. Melton, is no longer working for the Wise County Sheriff’s office. Her name shows up in a lot of places in the Google cache of the site, but it appears they have expunged every page she used to be on. Compare [this page](http://www.sheriff.co.wise.tx.us/crimepre.htm) to its [www.sheriff.co.wise.tx.us/crimepre.htm+%22Robin+Melton%22+site:www.sheriff.co.wise.tx.us&hl=en&ie=UTF-8](http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:7vm3WetdkRsC:%5Burl)"]Google cache and it looks like they just lifted her right out of the page. They seem to be attempting to disavow any knowledge of her. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/7 "2002-09-20T03:07:26Z")
Sorry for the third post in a row, but I screwed up the address for the cache. [This](http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:Zsw6j6Td3REC:www.sheriff.co.wise.tx.us/crimepre.htm+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8) should be right. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/8 "2002-09-20T05:20:12Z")
Why does “prayer meeting” sound like a euphenism to me? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/9 "2002-09-20T05:26:35Z")
And why can’t I spell euphemism? ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/10 "2002-09-20T08:26:37Z")
**Dr. Lao** : The weird thing is that the name in Google’s cache is different to the one that I saw on the website before it got taken down. I just can’t remember what that one was. **Astro** and **Miller** : Well, yeah - I was kinda thinking that, but didn’t know the names of any group I could complain too. Now I do, thanks. A problem would be that I live in the UK, so I don’t think my complaint would have much weight. Also, the page has now been removed so what exactly could they do? **Captain Amazing** : Yep, sounds like a euphemism to me too. I’ve got a good idea who was doing the praying. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/11 "2002-09-20T15:21:29Z")
- Well\*, if y’all didn’t go 'round stealing babies then maybe you wouldn’t be so reviled. [sub]Okay, that was a lame joke[/sub] My home town of Texarkana is not known for much diversity, but there is a significant number of Roma, permentantly living here. In fact, they lead rather traditional Roma lifestyle, living basically within the “Gypsy Camp” where the related families live adjacent to each other on communal property. Since my dad was friends with the patriarchs of the two main families, I’ve known them my whole life. What I didn’t know is that there is no significant Roma prescence in most areas. I found out a few years ago that many people don’t even have a clue that Roma live in the US. One day a friend of mine was visiting town with me and it came up that she had never met a Gypsy and until she’d seen a special on Roma on PBS, she didn’t know anything about them. So my dad promptly ushered everyone into the mini-van and drove out there to show her they’re real. When we pulled up, my dad went up to the house and spoke to the mother of the teens sulking near their cars. Then this middle-aged wife of my dad’s friend ambled up to the car stuck her head in the door, smiled graciously and said with a laugh “We’re not fairy tales, would you like to touch me.” ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/12 "2002-09-20T15:56:11Z")
The mystery novel “32 Cadillacs” by Joe Gores is a very funny book indeed. It describes quite a number of scams commited by Gypsies. Fiction ought not to be used as a source, but the author says that each swindle is based on a real episode. Gores was an investigator before becoming an author. In short, this book suggests a basis for the prejudice cited in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/13 "2002-09-20T16:23:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\* > In short, this book suggests a basis for the prejudice cited in the OP. \*\* And a lot of people who aren’t “Gypsies” commit scams, and most Roma don’t. As you know, committing fraud isn’t an ethnic or racial trait. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/14 "2002-09-20T16:47:38Z")
**Homebrew** : My father-in-law also mixed with Roma quite often. One of his close friends and colleagues when he worked in banking was Roma - Albeit passing himself off as Hispanic. I’ve always found it interesting that quite a few people in North America don’t know that Roma exist there. Mainly because they were some of the earliest settlers there. That, and that Law Enforcement Officers are being taught that you can’t move in America for all the ‘Gypsies’. From a program announcement for the St. Louis County and Municipal Police Academy: > [@](#): > > Romani Gypsies Their overwhelming numbers in the United States and their activities as they pertain to the entire region of the Midwest. Also how they expand their “charms” over the police. Prevention and methods of fighting the crimes they commit will be included. You can read Google’s text version of the original .pdf [here](http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:QIYdCGyw87gC:www.co.st-louis.mo.us/police/academy/pdffiles/2002/gypsy_a.pdf) I find the term ‘overwhelming numbers’ to be a little disconcerting - Sounds like a pest control guy talking 'bout a cockroach infestation. To follow on from **Captain Amazing’s** last post, people of many ethnic groups commit fraud. However, in the US, certain types of fraud are classed as ‘Gypsy crime’ regardless of the ethnic group of the perp. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/15 "2002-09-20T17:39:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > \*\* As you know, committing fraud isn’t an ethnic or racial trait. \*\* A serious thesis of this otherwise funny book is that commiting fraud is trait associated with the Roma culture. I have no idea whether that’s so or not; I’d want to see the evidence one way or another. Another alleged aspect of the Roma culture is a resistance to letting women learn to read. Does anyone know whether that has any validity? ---
**Author:** ![DocHopper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DocHopper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocHopper)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/16 "2002-09-20T18:35:36Z")
IIRC, National Geographic magazine had a lengthy article regarding Roma in East Europe in the past year or so. What was ironic/funny was that despite the usual touchy-feely angle to the culture overall and how they were misunderstood, the author of the article was compelled to add an ancecdote about how the Roma with which he was visiting robbed him, and I think they roughed him up, as well. As far as stereotypes go, I think Texas cops are living up to theirs quite nicely… ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/17 "2002-09-20T19:25:04Z")
**december** : Yes, fraud is associated with the Roma. As I have said, certain types of fraud are called ‘Gypsy crime’, regardless of the ethnic origin of the person commiting it. I have a feeling that you won’t find any decent data as to crime levels in the Roma community, the best information I can find is that in Romania - Where the Roma make up 11 percent of the population - they commit 11 percent of the crime. [Link](http://www.camcnty.gov.uk/sub/resrchgp/travel/susp.htm) > [@](#): > > There is little statistical evidence with which to substantiate or refute the criminal stereotype which attaches to Travellers, and apparently little research into the subject.96 A ‘best guess’ is that they are likely to commit similar levels of crime to others in similar circumstances. One estimate of uncertain reliability, suggests that in Romania, where Roma Gypsies form about 11% of the population, they are found to commit 11% of recorded crime.97 A 1970 survey in Yorkshire also found comparable levels of crime committed by Gypsies and non-Gypsies. The most revealing aspect of this research was the nature of allegations against Gypsies, which included ‘mocking golfers’ and ‘plotting to assassinate the Queen’.98 Now, I must say that I’m confused by your posts in this thread. Let’s say that the ‘Gypsies’ treated to a ‘prayer meeting’ were commiting fraud (although the Sheriff’s Office don’t appear to have pressed charges), are you saying that the shit that Wise County Sheriff’s Office posted on their site is acceptable? **DocHopper** : My wife picked that issue up when she was over in the States a few weeks back. It’s the April 2001 issue, pages 72-101. > [@](#): > > Apart from the bruises and shock, my main injury is to my hitherto benign image of the Roma as a wronged and misunderstood people. > > Then the words of Nicolae Paun, a Rom politician I met in Bucharest, come back to me: “If a Rom commits a crime,” he said, " he’s not treated as an individual, the whole community has to pay the price, the dignity of _all_ Roma is hurt." > > So I do my best to confine the blame for this particular episode to the individuals involved. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/18 "2002-09-20T19:49:10Z")
Forgot to address your last question. In my experience, no - there is no particular resistance to letting women learn to read. This lot ought to satisfy your curiosity about Roma education: [http://directory.google.com/Top/Society/Ethnicity/Romani/Education/?tc=1](http://directory.google.com/Top/Society/Ethnicity/Romani/Education/?tc=1) Kal - waiting to be asked if Gypsies _really_ steal babies. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/19 "2002-09-20T19:55:07Z")
Not being an apologist for December but the notion that Roma/Gypsies/Travellers are associated with particular types of scams is not entirely false, and there have been fairly notorious groups of Travellers in various places in the US that have perpetrated these scams as their day in, day out way of making a living. As a statistical measure of Roma crime vs crime in the larger population of offenders I would imagine the stats break down very much as you indicated, along the lines of population representation and they are probably no more or less criminal than others in the same the socio-economic cohort. I think what many people are fascinated or intrigued by in the Roma culture is the strength with which old country cultural traditions have been maintained while living in the thick of modern society. This in group/out group identification can cut both ways however, and Roma culture (fairly or unfairly) does not have the reputation for being particularly progressive when it comes to valuing education for young women. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689/20 "2002-09-20T20:16:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kal \* > \*\*Kal - waiting to be asked if Gypsies _really_ steal babies. \*\* Hey! I made note of that in my first post. BTW, I thought the Travellers were Irish. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-county-sheriffs-office-a-belated-fuck-you/128689.md?page=2)