# Wise Men **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [April 22, 2005, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-men/300571 "2005-04-22T08:54:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![solomani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@solomani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solomani)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-men/300571/21 "2005-04-26T00:05:45Z")
> [@RiverRunner](#): > > What I want to know is which one gave the tortoiseshell comb? > > RR Airball… went straight over my head. ---
**Author:** ![Tenar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@Tenar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenar)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-men/300571/22 "2005-04-26T00:34:18Z")
It is a reference to the O’Henry short story entitled The Gift of the Magi, in which an impoverished young man sold his watch to buy a set of tortoiseshell combs for his beloved, who had sold her long and beautiful hair to buy him a (wait for it!) watch chain ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-men/300571/23 "2005-04-26T02:55:38Z")
It was later spoofed on Sesame Street, where Ernie sold his rubber duckie to Mr. Hooper to buy… a pigeon coop, I think, for Bert, and Bert sold his pigeon (?) to buy Ernie a soap dish to keep the rubber duckie on. Mr. Hooper, of course, stopped by to return the duckie and Bert’s what-have-you as Christmas gifts to Bert and Ernie. Toddlers don’t grasp irony. ---
**Author:** ![solomani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@solomani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solomani)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-men/300571/24 "2005-04-26T03:32:33Z")
Thanks for the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-men/300571/25 "2005-04-26T16:26:51Z")
> [@RiverRunner](#): > > What I want to know is which one gave the tortoiseshell comb? > > RR Probably the last one to show up, because he didn’t have a watch any more. ---
**Author:** ![KeithP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/85e7bf/32.png) [@KeithP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KeithP)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-men/300571/26 "2005-04-26T20:40:01Z")
> [@Aeidein](#): > > The Bible never says how long it took the wise men to reach Jesus. Considering the distance they had to travel, they probably reached Him about 2-3 years after His birth. The common nativity scene that is so prevalent at Christmas time is actually a concocted notion that has no basis in the actual story. More then likely Jesus was 2 to 3 years old when the “wise men” showed up. The scripture makes specific mention of the star coming to rest over the house. Not a manger and not on the night of his birth. When Joseph was warned to flee to Egypt, when Herod had ordered all the males 2 and under to be killed according to the time when the wise men had told him they had seen the star, Jesus was not a newborn and they were not living in a manger. I laugh when I see these Christmas nativity scenes showing the “3 wise men” gathered at the manger because it is absolutely a false notion. But hey, whatever gives them a warm fuzzy. No skin off my nose what Christmas decorations people want to put up. In other news, I’ve heard the birthdate of Jews was not figured as we do, i.e. the actual day of birth, but that it is figured from conception somehow. Also, the manger scene may have more to do with the Jewish holiday of Sukkot. Which would also explain the great mass of people gathered and there being no room at the inn. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-men/300571/27 "2005-04-29T07:19:52Z")
From my [Star of Bethlehem Thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=312584): > [@](#): > > As for the nitpicks, you’re right about the Magi…they were not kings, that title was erroneously bestowed upon them as time went by, and I’m actuallly not sure how many there were, so I will only refer to them as Magi. As for the Magi possibly being Zoroastrian priests, the priests were exactly as you described the Magi…the book describes the original Greek term “Magos” (“Magoi” plural) to be a caste of Zoroastrian priests who [tried to overtake the throne of Persia](http://www.iranchamber.com/history/smerdis/smerdis.php) , but were beaten and slaughtered by [Darius](http://www.iranchamber.com/history/darius/darius.php) (522-521 BCE). The greek historian [Herodotus [Book 3.61 to 3.67]](http://www.iranchamber.com/history/herodotus/herodotus_history_book3.php) noted that a “magos” was actually a Zoroastrian priest or wise man from Persia, which was noted well before the birth of Christ. By the time Christ was born, the term Magi became more encompassing…someone who is an astrologer, soothsayer or wise man. Tertullian, a christian writer (about 210 AD) wrote that Magi of the East “were almost like kings”, introducing the incorrect notion that the Magi were kings. ---
**Author:** ![Jeanine\_Stevens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f08c70/32.png) [@Jeanine\_Stevens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeanine_Stevens)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-men/300571/28 "2005-10-18T17:55:45Z")
Hi I just wanted to say that I saw a documentary a long time ago about the place of origin of the Wise Men. One point they made is that they saw the star in the east, so they must of been west of Jerusalem when they saw it–other words in the Mediterranian area. Just a thought. Jeanine Stevesn 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-men/300571/29 "2005-10-18T20:30:16Z")
> [@](#): > > One point they made is that they saw the star in the east, so they must of been west of Jerusalem when they saw it–other words in the Mediterranian area. Just a thought. Or that could mean that they were in the East, and they saw the star. Or it could have some technical meaning understood to astrologers of the time, the subtleties of which are now lost on most readers, and not have referred to geographical location at all. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-men/300571/30 "2005-10-19T01:03:58Z")
> [@Jeanine Stevens](#): > > Hi > > I just wanted to say that I saw a documentary a long time ago about the place of origin of the Wise Men. One point they made is that they saw the star in the east, so they must of been west of Jerusalem when they saw it–other words in the Mediterranian area. Just a thought. > > Jeanine Stevesn 😕 No, it’s because English syntax carries an implication that Greek syntax does not. Making the assumption that there is some historical accuracy to the Magi story (because the alternative dead-ends; they might as well have come from Minas Tirith or Erewhon), they were Persian scholars who held to astrology. “His star” would have been a configuration, probably a conjunction, of “planets” in the astrological sense. I recall reading that there was a three-planet conjunction in Pisces, which for some reason Persian astrology associated with Palestine, a few years prior to the probable date of Jesus’s birth. As for the problem with “We have seen his star in the East,” you need to read that with the locative taken as adverbial, modifying the sentence, rather than adjectival, modifying the object. Not “we have seen his star while looking East” but “we have seen his star [while we were] in the East.” As for the dancing star hopping around to guide them to the particular house that the Holy Family lived in, I think it’s safe to assume that that’s a bit of editorial license on the “the star led the Magi to Jesus” idea by the author of Matthew, pending records of first century UFO sitings or something of the sort. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-men/300571/31 "2005-10-19T11:37:57Z")
I always assumed they were attracted to the large neon star and giant illumniated Santa that were put up on the roof the manger, to celebrate Christmas. ::: ducking ::: ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-men/300571/32 "2005-10-19T13:42:13Z")
I wonder if his mom made him write all those Magi thank-you notes for the gifts. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-men/300571/33 "2005-10-19T13:51:41Z")
> [@C K Dexter Haven](#): > > I always assumed they were attracted to the large neon star and giant illumniated Santa that were put up on the roof the manger, to celebrate Christmas. ::: ducking ::: That’s just silly. Everyone knows they had a huge light-up menorah. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wise-men/300571.md?page=1)