# Wish I may, wish I might... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 1, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wish-i-may-wish-i-might/410150 "2007-07-01T19:49:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wish-i-may-wish-i-might/410150/1 "2007-07-01T19:49:28Z")
Could one (or more) of the Dope’s grammar experts please explain the difference between “may” and “might”? Every so often I read or hear something that uses the word “may” in a way that sounds wrong to me, where “might” would be the more appropriate word, or vice versa. But it might be me who’s wrong—or should I say “it may be me who’s wrong”? The most recent example: I read, in a review of John Kennedy Toole’s _A Confederacy of Dunces_, “Toole’s prose is energetic, and his talent, had it matured, may have produced a masterpiece.” To me, the “may” implies something that’s still possible. I would have used the word “might” instead, meaning “it could have but it didn’t.” Am I right? What’s the official distinction? ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wish-i-may-wish-i-might/410150/2 "2007-07-02T04:54:13Z")
[QUOTE=Thudlow Boink] Could one (or more) of the Dope’s grammar experts please explain the difference between “may” and “might”? Every so often I read or hear something that uses the word “may” in a way that sounds wrong to me, where “might” would be the more appropriate word, or vice versa. But it might be me who’s wrong—or should I say “it may be me who’s wrong”? The most recent example: I read, in a review of John Kennedy Toole’s _A Confederacy of Dunces_, “Toole’s prose is energetic, and his talent, had it matured, may have produced a masterpiece.” To me, the “may” implies something that’s still possible. I would have used the word “might” instead, meaning “it could have but it didn’t.” Am I right? What’s the official distinction? [/QUOTE] As far as the sentence you’re quoting, I agree; “might” is the correct choice. Your earlier pair is less cut-and-dried: when dealing with a situation lying in the present, “might” merely implies a greater degree of uncertainty than “may,” so neither is grammatically incorrect. The correct sentence, however, would use “I,” not “me.” As far as meaning goes: “It might be I who is wrong” = I’m not wrong, but I’m willing to acknowledge the theoretical possibility. “It may be I who is wrong” = I don’t think I’m wrong, but I don’t have all the facts. I think you mean the second of these, so I’d advise “may.” Here’s the way I see it: “might” is the past tense of “may.” As such, it also serves as the past, or second, subjunctive of “may.” This neatly explains all of the above. Likewise related are: “would” and “will”; “should” and “shall”; and “could” and “can.” There might be other pairs that are slipping my mind at the moment. It’s important to remember that these relationships do not straightforwardly determine their current usage. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wish-i-may-wish-i-might/410150/3 "2007-07-02T06:13:34Z")
In my ideolect, which I take to reflect standard contemporary English usage: Both “might” and “may” can be used to indicate possibility, Of the pair, only “may” can be used to indicate permission Of the pair, only “might” can be used to indicate counterfactual states of affairs. (I think that when it’s used this way, it’s always in a “might have” construction.) Well, I _think_ that captures it. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wish-i-may-wish-i-might/410150/4 "2007-07-02T13:28:06Z")
I learned it as a matter of likelihood: “It may help” indicates it’s likely to help, though not certain; “It might help” indicates it’s unlikely to help, but still possible. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wish-i-may-wish-i-might/410150/5 "2007-07-02T13:40:09Z")
In this case, I think “may” implies having permission, and “might” implies having the ability to do so. So, they are saying “I wish I had permission, I wish I were able to have the wish I wish tonight.” 🙂 ETA: Otherwise it has become interchangeable, with some exceptions. As in “You may have a cookie.” As opposed to “If you are good, you might get a cookie.” ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wish-i-may-wish-i-might/410150/6 "2007-07-02T15:30:11Z")
[QUOTE=Gary T] I learned it as a matter of likelihood: “It may help” indicates it’s likely to help, though not certain; “It might help” indicates it’s unlikely to help, but still possible. [/QUOTE] The two words sound exactly equivalent in this example. I have never heard of anyone trying to make this distinction. In both cases I would say it indicates only possibility, and nothing at all about likelihood. I have sometimes discovered that I have to use “might” to avoid the ambiguity of “may”, which can can mean either “could possibly” or “has permission to.” Such as, “My son may play outside” could mean either that I told him he was allowed to, or that it is possible that he will but I don’t know for certain. But “My son might play outside” means only the latter. On a related note, I knew a guy from Arkansas who very often said “might should” to mean “maybe [one] should”, such as, “That tire is looking soft, you might should pump it up.” Or “might could” to mean “maybe [one] is able to” such as, “I might could meet you this weekend, I’ll let you know tomorrow.” I don’t know if that is typical Arkansan dialect. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wish-i-may-wish-i-might/410150/7 "2007-07-02T18:19:27Z")
In my experience, typical Arkansan dialect would include the phrase “I reckon,” as in “I reckon you might should pump it up.” 😉 Seriously, “might could” and “might should” are classic examples of authentic Arkansan dialect. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wish-i-may-wish-i-might/410150/8 "2007-07-03T02:31:04Z")
[QUOTE=Thudlow Boink] Could one (or more) of the Dope’s grammar experts please explain the difference between “may” and “might”? Every so often I read or hear something that uses the word “may” in a way that sounds wrong to me, where “might” would be the more appropriate word, or vice versa. But it might be me who’s wrong—or should I say “it may be me who’s wrong”? The most recent example: I read, in a review of John Kennedy Toole’s _A Confederacy of Dunces_, “Toole’s prose is energetic, and his talent, had it matured, may have produced a masterpiece.” To me, the “may” implies something that’s still possible. I would have used the word “might” instead, meaning “it could have but it didn’t.” Am I right? What’s the official distinction? [/QUOTE] In modern colloquial English, “may” and “might” mean exactly the same thing. A schoolmarmish grammarian would say that “may” indicates you have permission to undertake an action, while “might” indicates that some condition needs to be satisfied to undertake the action (including but not limited to permission, volition, etc). And if you go back to the 19th century or further, the meanings are different. So for all intents and purposes, you can assume they mean the same thing, unless you are asking a stodgy English teacher if you have permission to do something. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wish-i-may-wish-i-might/410150/9 "2007-07-03T04:09:52Z")
[QUOTE=Brain Wreck] In modern colloquial English, “may” and “might” mean exactly the same thing. [/quote] I really don’t think so. I think in modern colloquial English we _can_ say: “If it hadn’t rained, he might have made it on time,” but we _can’t_ say “If it hadn’t rained, he may have made it on time.” But do you think differently? This brings up a question I’ve wondered about. Is there a database of transcripts of samples of normal, spoken conversational English (of whatever various types) available online somewheres? That would be a nice tool to have for discovering answers to questions like this… -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wish-i-may-wish-i-might/410150/10 "2007-07-03T04:36:10Z")
I checked my old usage guides and think that the following, from The Careful Writer by Theodore Bernstein, the former copyeditor of The New York Times, is the clearest explanation of the subtle distinction between may and might. > [@](#): > > May poses a possibility; might adds a greater degree of uncertainty to the possibility. This shade of difference appears in the following sentence: “Any broadcasting station that airs more commercials than the code allows may be fined, and in extreme cases its license might be taken away.” notice that no grammatical difference dictates the use of may in one instance and might in the other; it is rather a difference in intended meaning. If we say, “You had better get your tickets now or the house may be sold out,” we suggest a real possibility; if we say, “You had better get your tickets now or the house might be sold out,”: the possibility is there but it is made to seem faintly more remote. The writer in the OP’s quote, therefore, is saying that there was a real possibility of Poole’s creating a masterpiece rather than a remote one. This is more of a distinction for prose and for, well, careful writers. In speech and in casual writing, subtle distinctions are rarely if ever made. They may be an unconscious predilection for may over might for possible possibilities and might over may for unlikely possibilities. That’s the way most of the distinctions made by other posters have trended. I think **Gary T** came closest to what Bernstein wrote, though. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wish-i-may-wish-i-might/410150/11 "2007-07-03T14:52:38Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] I really don’t think so. I think in modern colloquial English we _can_ say: “If it hadn’t rained, he might have made it on time,” but we _can’t_ say “If it hadn’t rained, he may have made it on time.” But do you think differently? [/QUOTE] True, in the past tense, the distinction becomes relevant. In fact, interestingly, I can’t think of any past tense of “may” in the permissive sense. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wish-i-may-wish-i-might/410150/12 "2007-07-03T15:08:20Z")
[QUOTE=Brain Wreck] True, in the past tense, the distinction becomes relevant. In fact, interestingly, I can’t think of any past tense of “may” in the permissive sense. [/QUOTE] “I asked my uncle if I **might** have a cookie, and he responded with a rambling, discursive diatribe on nutrition, child-rearing, tooth decay, and the Vietnam war. His tone implied an answer in the negative. In obedience to his wishes, I did not take a cookie; instead, while he was engrossed in a complex and unlikely comparison of whitening toothpastes and the Strategic Hamlet program, I stole his cigarettes.” ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wish-i-may-wish-i-might/410150/13 "2007-07-03T15:17:57Z")
[QUOTE=Nametag] “I asked my uncle if I **might** have a cookie, and he responded with a rambling, discursive diatribe on nutrition, child-rearing, tooth decay, and the Vietnam war. His tone implied an answer in the negative. In obedience to his wishes, I did not take a cookie; instead, while he was engrossed in a complex and unlikely comparison of whitening toothpastes and the Strategic Hamlet program, I stole his cigarettes.” [/QUOTE] Where’s that from? I’m reminded of the to-me-stilted-sounding usage “Might I have a cookie, Fathah?” -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wish-i-may-wish-i-might/410150/14 "2007-07-05T17:41:30Z")
[QUOTE=Thudlow Boink] The most recent example: I read, in a review of John Kennedy Toole’s _A Confederacy of Dunces_, “Toole’s prose is energetic, and his talent, had it matured, may have produced a masterpiece.” To me, the “may” implies something that’s still possible. I would have used the word “might” instead, meaning “it could have but it didn’t.” Am I right? What’s the official distinction? [/QUOTE] Well, I agree that Might would mean “it could have but it didn’t.” I think the author used “may” to indicate “it depends” and specifcally avoid saying “but it didn’t.” Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wish-i-may-wish-i-might/410150/15 "2007-07-05T19:07:07Z")
As usual, I’ll resort to Webster’s Ninth Collegiate. Might is used: as a past tense of _may_ for a present condition contrary to fact: “if you were older you might understand” for something less probable or possible that _may_: “it might rain” a polite alternative to _may, ought_ or _should_: “might I ask who’s calling”; “you might at least apologize” ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wish-i-may-wish-i-might/410150/16 "2007-07-12T07:22:09Z")
Whoops; I missed this one: [QUOTE=Frylock] > [@Nametag](#): > > “I asked my uncle if I might have a cookie, and he responded with a rambling, discursive diatribe on nutrition, child-rearing, tooth decay, and the Vietnam war. His tone implied an answer in the negative. In obedience to his wishes, I did not take a cookie; instead, while he was engrossed in a complex and unlikely comparison of whitening toothpastes and the Strategic Hamlet program, I stole his cigarettes.” Where’s that from? [/quote] The inside of my head. Scary place. > [@](#): > > I’m reminded of the to-me-stilted-sounding usage “Might I have a cookie, Fathah?” Yes, that present-tense example IS stilted; normal folk would just say “may.” The unwashed are more likely to ask “can I have a cookie?” The past tense version, “I asked if I could have a cookie” is therefore probably more familiar, but that’s not what anyone asked for.