# Witching Water **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [June 4, 2000, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witching-water/21376 "2000-06-04T17:58:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2

**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witching-water/21376/21 "2000-10-05T17:25:21Z")

You have no doubt that dowsing works? As a mechanical engineer then, (according to your profile) what would you suggest is the elementary motive force that causes the rods to cross? And why do you suppose dowsing works for certain individuals on water and not for you? What would be the excluding factor? Is there an attenuation with depth? ---

**Author:** ![albertaboy299](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce73a5/32.png) [@albertaboy299](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/albertaboy299)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witching-water/21376/22 "2000-10-05T18:40:09Z")

I have given it some thought, and I would have to say that a common factor in all the things that I am able to “detect” is that they are all located beneath previously undisturbed soil. The other common element is that I tend to be more succesful in locating electrical lines, piping, or other long, uninterupted objects in the ground. Just off the top of my head, I would say it has something to do with current flow (or disruptions in current flow) in the soil, and the effects on magnetic fields. I know that underground line locators like the MetroTech can go all wonky when you try to use them beneath high voltage power lines. I will add that I have never “located” anything deeper than about 25 feet. And, I have no idea why I can’t locate water. I think what I might do is try a bit of a test when I get a chance. I will go out to a known buried pipe crossing beneath a road, have myself blindfolded, and have a friend walk me towards it from an unknown starting distance, say 50 to 300 meters. If I am succesful in locating it on 2 or three successive attempts, perhaps I will contact one of my old statistics professors to arrange for a test that would prove “statistical significance” Who knows, maybe I can win a million bucks… ---

**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witching-water/21376/23 "2000-10-05T19:19:21Z")

What do you consider to be a “successful” attempt? Do you think your rods should deflect directly over the pipe? That is to say, if you have a 20" diameter pipe, your rods should deflect somewhere within those 20 inches? Or will you give yourself a margin of error, say within a few feet of either side of the centerline? Or perhaps, your rods should deflect as you cross the leading edge of the pipe? How are you going to verify your success? If it is indeed “current flow” you are detecting, how would that allow you to locate gas or sewer lines as opposed to conduits carrying power conductors? Or are you saying you can detect the flow of liquids/gases inside the pipes? If this is the case, is it possible to detect empty power conduits or liquid/gas pipelines? I just looked at some of the products on the Metro Tech website and I’d like to know if the device you are using is their magnetic detector or one of the others. ---

**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witching-water/21376/24 "2000-10-05T19:56:20Z")

> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by albertaboy299 \* > One time, we were out installing a system at an old chemical plant, and the owner asked us to locate some underground utilities around an area where they planned some new construction. The area had been paved and repaved twice in the last ten years, no “settling” of soil was able to occur. The existing drawings showed all the lines that had been installed in the last ten years, but the plant was thirty years old and several lines were not shown. To locate these lines, we used a MetroTech. This device can be used by a skilled operator to locate underground lines that contain conductors, and it is very accurate. Unforunately, it does not work on non conductors. The man who I was working with waited until there was a shift change (so that no one would think we were crazy) and then quickly walked around the area with a couple of bent pieces of wire, sticking flags in the ground whenever they crossed. We then used the MetroTech to confirm the locations and depths of all the items that we found. We found two buried electrical lines that did not appear on our drawings. (We knew they were electrical, because using the MetroTech we traced them back to where they came out of the ground.) In addition we had one line that the MetroTech could not pick up. It turned out that there was a buried concrete sewer pipe 20 feet down. (This was confirmed during an excavation.) I can think of several possible factors that do not involve the mysterious science of “dowsing”. [ul] [li]Were all the flags planted above an underground conduit? Or were some of the flags correct and some incorrect? How many flags did you plant?[/li][li]How close were the flags to the actual underground lines?[/li][li]How many underground lines escaped detection?[/li][li]Since this was the site of an old chemical plant, how many underground lines were in the area that you were surveying? Was it a high number?[/li][/ul] If you are a successful dowser, then I urge you to try the million dollar challenge mentioned. ---

**Author:** ![Loren\_Pechtel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@Loren\_Pechtel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loren_Pechtel)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witching-water/21376/25 "2000-10-05T21:56:40Z")

> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by albertaboy299 \* > \*\*I have given it some thought, and I would have to say that a common factor in all the things that I am able to “detect” is that they are all located beneath previously undisturbed soil. The other common element is that I tend to be more succesful in locating electrical lines, piping, or other long, uninterupted objects in the ground. Just off the top of my head, I would say it has something to do with current flow (or disruptions in current flow) in the soil, and the effects on magnetic fields. I know that underground line locators like the MetroTech can go all wonky when you try to use them beneath high voltage power lines. > > I will add that I have never “located” anything deeper than about 25 feet. And, I have no idea why I can’t locate water. > > I think what I might do is try a bit of a test when I get a chance. I will go out to a known buried pipe crossing beneath a road, have myself blindfolded, and have a friend walk me towards it from an unknown starting distance, say 50 to 300 meters. If I am succesful in locating it on 2 or three successive attempts, perhaps I will contact one of my old statistics professors to arrange for a test that would prove “statistical significance” > > Who knows, maybe I can win a million bucks… \*\* ``` If you are referring to James Randi's offer, it certainly sounds like a skill that would qualify. However, last I looked the prize was unclaimed despite several attempts. If dowsing is possible, I would think a dowser would have claimed it by now. ``` ---

**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2000, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witching-water/21376/26 "2000-10-06T20:15:20Z")

Loren, while I agree with your assessment, I wouldn’t want to discourage albertaboy299 from trying simply because it hasn’t been won yet. He might learn something. Of course Randi’s experience seems to be that nobody learns from it except that they won’t submit to any further testing, but there’s always room to hope. ---

**Author:** ![albertaboy299](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce73a5/32.png) [@albertaboy299](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/albertaboy299)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2000, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witching-water/21376/27 "2000-10-07T01:52:28Z")

In response to the remarks about my success, I would have to say that probably 85% of the flags that we placed were above underground “conduits”. Approximately thirty flags were placed during the first experience that I had with it, and we located eight underground lines at that time. This was in an area of approximately 150 square meters. I do intend to conduct further trials on the subject. Since posting, I have “taught” three people to dowse, succesful in all cases. However, we all had the use of sight at the time. I am not a hard and fast believer, even though I can do it, and if I could disprove my ability, I would sleep better at night. I am a total sceptic. I will check the MetroTech web site and let everyone know what type of instrument I was using. By the way, I just got fired/quit, because I use the internet to much at work, (I am just so fast at doing my job that I have time to kill), so don’t flame me TOO hard because I am unemployed and have a very low self esteem right now. LOL (my boss doesn’t realize what he just lost!!!) ---

**Author:** ![MrWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9f8e36/32.png) [@MrWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrWhy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witching-water/21376/28 "2000-10-09T06:31:38Z")

> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AngstMC \* > \*\*So how can it be explained that I was able to find where this neighbor guy’s water line ran through his yard? > > \ > > I seem to remember that he shut off the water line at the street when we began work, in anticipation of digging and cutting. \*\* Well, you knew where at least part of the water line was. You had to, to be able to shut it off. Maybe the rest was obvious, or at least probable. ---

**Author:** ![Loren\_Pechtel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@Loren\_Pechtel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loren_Pechtel)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witching-water/21376/29 "2000-10-09T23:25:31Z")

> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MrWhy \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by AngstMC \* > > \*\*So how can it be explained that I was able to find where this neighbor guy’s water line ran through his yard? > > > > \ > > > > I seem to remember that he shut off the water line at the street when we began work, in anticipation of digging and cutting. \*\* > > Well, you knew where at least part of the water line was. You had to, to be able to shut it off. Maybe the rest was obvious, or at least probable. \*\* ``` I was thinking along the same lines--every report I've heard of people who seem to succeed at dowsing are people looking for objects placed by man. Now, objects placed by man aren't random, there is a reason for where they are placed, and that reason might very well have clues that are above ground, whether or not the people doing it are *CONSCIOUSLY* aware of using those clues or not. Last year I had occasion to watch a plumber hunt for buried pipes. From his actions, it was obvious he had a reasonable idea of where the pipes were before his tools told him--his searching was far from random. In fact, he had quite a time locating one pipe--which I happen to know is *NOT* where reason says it should be, but rather offset by two feet. ``` ---

**Author:** ![Batard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Batard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batard)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2000, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witching-water/21376/30 "2000-10-12T19:56:07Z")

One thing nobody has pointed out so far - dowsing \>does\< work in the sense that at least some of them successfully locate water conducts, power lines etc. By the same measure, placebos work. The human psyche is a complicated thing which we probably never can figure out totally. As has been stated, in all (most?) of the successful discoveries there are some signals (like e.g small cracks in walls, maybe slightly different vegetation in the case of leaky water pipes) that the subconcious interprets without people being aware of this process. In many cases, the dowsers just help their neighbors, or some people use it in their own work - no damage done, I would say, because it will be cheaper than calling an expert who charges you. Despite my comment above, however, I’m in favor of stamping out this type of folklore in the name of science - we have more to win if all humans are better educated and free of superstition because there will always be unscrupulous people who will (try to) use it in their advantage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witching-water/21376.md?page=1)