# With Friends like the S. Baptists, Gays Need No Enemies **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 18, 2003, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694 "2003-06-18T13:50:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/141 "2003-06-19T03:00:57Z")
Here we go again with the SBC/Southern Baptist thing. The terms are NOT interchangeable. Did I say the fucking convention loves you? No. I said that the Southern Baptists I have known throughout my life love you even though they’ve never met you. I understand you have a stressful situation going on at home, but do try to pay attention. For most Southern Baptists (the people, not the organization, in case it’s not clear), it’s not gay people they consider sinful and destructive, it’s gay _sex_. A behavior, not a person. They considered my behavior prior to getting married (drinking and premarital sex, anyone?) sinful and destructive too, and some of the people I love most were quite vocal on that score. Unlike some people on and off this board, they were able to seperate the person from the behavior and love the sinner while hoping for her to be turned from her sin. And no, they weren’t trying to impose their brand of thinking on my life. They were upset that I was going to Hell. You see, they consider it an act of love to try to keep someone from spending eternity in misery and torment. I disagree with their take on what’s a Hell-worthy trespass, but I accept their efforts in the spirit they were intended. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/142 "2003-06-19T03:05:46Z")
Why the fuck are you trying to stir the pot some more **CrazyCatLady**? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/143 "2003-06-19T03:07:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*Thank you for your good thoughts. \*\* Of course. Nothing but. Bad news is, tonight I just found out that an ex-girlfriend recently died due to a “serious, but not that serious” condition. Good news is, my current girlfriend recently underwent scares from a number of tumers, spots, and strange looking tissues on her skin and all of her various naughty bits. One major surgery and today she’s right as rain. I sincerely hope that your sister is signed up for the Good News plan. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/144 "2003-06-19T03:12:00Z")
Sorry, **CrazyCatLady**. They are trying to impose their way of thinking by denouncing my sexuality as sinful and inferior to their own, and telling me to change my ways. It is NONE of their damn business who or how I fuck, period. Got it? Telling me to change a part of my life that gives me joy and love is NOT love. Hell, it ain’t even friendship. I am a devoted fan of the musicals of Stephen Sondheim. Shall I start handing out librettos of **Into the Woods** outside SBC churches? Shall I tell people that if they don’t embrace the gospel of Sondheim and Lapine that they will spend an eternity in the clammy embrace of the second-rate Marvin Hamlisch? Shall I organize a boycott of Baptist-friendly businesses that don’t give out free recordings of **A Sunday Afternoon in the Park with George**? Shall I tell every SBC member I meet that they must convert to the the Church of Sondheim or face damnation because I looove them? There is no god but Sondheim and Mandy Patinkin is His prophet (and Barbara Cook!) ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/145 "2003-06-19T03:12:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CrazyCatLady \* > **(drinking and premarital sex, anyone?)** OK, but afterwards you’re driving me home. I have to work tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/146 "2003-06-19T03:14:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tdn \* > \*\*Of course. Nothing but. > > Bad news is, tonight I just found out that an ex-girlfriend recently died due to a “serious, but not that serious” condition. > > Good news is, my current girlfriend recently underwent scares from a number of tumers, spots, and strange looking tissues on her skin and all of her various naughty bits. One major surgery and today she’s right as rain. > > I sincerely hope that your sister is signed up for the Good News plan. \*\* Well, she’s only 38, so she is certainly young enough to beat this, but she’s been a lifelong smoker, despite years of nagging her to stop, so I’m keeping my fingers crossed. I’m very sorry to hear of your loss, but I’m heartened by your girlfriend’s good fortune. ---
**Author:** ![presidebt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c37758/32.png) [@presidebt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/presidebt)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/147 "2003-06-19T03:24:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\* > “Far too large and disparate a group”? Self-professed Southern Baptists number around 16.5 million in the U.S. as of 1990. (I’m still looking for more recent figures.) They are the single largest Protestant denomination in the U.S. And yet my comparison is invalid? Right. > > \*\* I think your comparison is invalid because you have no choice of nationality, but you do for religion. You’re born an American, you’re merely baptized a SB. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/148 "2003-06-19T03:27:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > **Well, she’s only 38, so she is certainly young enough to beat this, but she’s been a lifelong smoker, despite years of nagging her to stop, so I’m keeping my fingers crossed.** Me too. But please do her a big favor – don’t continue to nag her about her smoking. It’s the last thing she needs right now. (If you’ve stopped nagging, then good on you.) ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/149 "2003-06-19T03:33:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tdn \* > \*\*Me too. But please do her a big favor – don’t continue to nag her about her smoking. It’s the last thing she needs right now. (If you’ve stopped nagging, then good on you.) \*\* C’mon. No way am I doing that. All she’s getting from me is love and support. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/150 "2003-06-19T03:36:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Slacker \* > \*\* Do we need to go through all of the Christian denominations with hard-line stances on homosexuality and pit 'em on occasion? \*\* Sounds like a plan. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/151 "2003-06-19T03:39:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > **I belong to a Southern Baptist church. I disagree strongly with many of the policies enacted by the Southern Baptists.** Then leave. If you are a moral person, you cannot possibly remain in an utterly dispicable and evil organization like the Southern Baptist Convention. If you stand by it, you are supporting everything it does, regardless of how you really feel. The only moral thing for a person to do when they find themselves in one of the most evil organizations of modern times is to get up, spit on the pastor and leave. Staying only lends numbers and power to their cause of evil. Therefore, there can be no moral Southern Baptists, because they support an evil entity, and generally do so gleefully. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/152 "2003-06-19T03:42:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\*“Love the sinner, hate the sin” is a fallacy. > > Esprix \*\* It’s not just a fallacy, it’s utter bullshit. It’s the theological equivelent to patriotism – the last refuge of a disreputable, evil scoundrel. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/153 "2003-06-19T04:06:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*C’mon. No way am I doing that. All she’s getting from me is love and support. \*\* Glad to hear it. I know the coming months and years will be a real trial for all of you. I’m not a religious guy, but I wish you all of the miracles the universe has to offer. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/154 "2003-06-19T04:13:12Z")
This thread reminds me of a funny line i read once (i think it might have been Molly Ivins): “The problem with Southern Baptists is that they don’t hold them under water long enough.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/155 "2003-06-19T04:15:06Z")
I know this is a bit of a hijack, but I wanted to send my best wishes to **gobear** , **gosis** , and the entire **gofamily**. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*It’s a small tumor in the space betwen the hemispheres of the brain. Right now, the doctors have said they are going to watch it to see if it grows or if it is just a benign body. She told me she’s going to get a second opinion from another neurologist. I’m glad because I don’t like the idea of “wait and see” when it comes to this crap. > \*\* It is good to get a second opinion, but her neurologist may have good reason to want to “wait and see”. Since neurosurgery is complicated and dangerous, they don’t like to go in unless they have to. If the tumor is non-cancerous and is not causing her troubling sypmtoms, leaving it alone may be the best option. Of course, there could also be non-surgical treatments available to her; it’s possible to shrink some tumors with medication or radiation. If it does come to surgery, rest assured that they can do amazing things these days. Trust me, I’ve had brain surgery twice in the past four years. I was out of bed and walking around the morning after my craniotomy. If your sister is in otherwise decent health she’ll probably come through the operation well. ---
**Author:** ![macabresoul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e68b1a/32.png) [@macabresoul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/macabresoul)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/156 "2003-06-19T05:20:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CrazyCatLady \* > \*\* They disagree with homosexuality, to be sure, and many of them disagree with things that are a pretty fundamental core of my being. > > If that makes them evil, I wish the world was a more evil place. \*\* :rolleyes: Umm best wishes to you then… I actually wish the world was a more tolerant place. With more understanding and acceptance then evil and hate. I know you were just saying that as an analogy or whatever, but either way you are wrong. I think **Spectrum** nailed it on the nose in a not so subtle way. I won’t write up an analogy here for sake of overduing analogies in one thread. But why be a part of some church where you don’t believe much of what is being taught. It does not make sense, how can you just pick and choose where to put your faith. How can you rationalize listening to sermons and getting advice on how to live your life during sunday mass when these same people preach hate the other 6 days of the week. ---
**Author:** ![Pixiesnix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Pixiesnix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixiesnix)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/157 "2003-06-19T05:35:54Z")
\ Um, I’m a Southern Baptist. And yes, I do consider myself _Southern_ Baptist and not just Baptist. And I don’t agree with many of the SBC’s ideas and rulings, especially this one. This is an abbhorent idea, full of ignorance and hate. But we’re not all bad. One of my good friends is bisexual, and I would never EVER think of “converting” anyone who was gay. heck, I’m even a writer of slash fiction! I just hate to see _all_ Southern Baptists painted with such a broad brush. I like to think of myself as a warm, loving person, open to all lifestyles. We’re not all Fred Phelps or Jack Chick. I don’t want to anger anyone, but I just wanted to say that. ---
**Author:** ![Pixiesnix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Pixiesnix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixiesnix)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/158 "2003-06-19T05:39:22Z")
I’m sorry I forgot to mention this in my previous post. The reason I don’t leave the Church is the same reason many Catholics haven’t left their Church even though they may disagree with the Church’s stance on birth control or premarital sex. I like my faith, I think it’s beautiful. The leaders need to be changed, but that’s not enough to make me abandon my faith. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/159 "2003-06-19T06:12:01Z")
My thoughts are with you and your family, **gobear**. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694/160 "2003-06-19T06:44:40Z")
Same here. Nil desperandum, **gobear** , and non carborundum. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-the-s-baptists-gays-need-no-enemies/182694.md?page=9)