# With friends like us, what do the UK and Canada need with enemies? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 23, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433 "2009-08-23T22:56:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/1 "2009-08-23T22:56:41Z")
First came the insulting propaganda attacks on the NHS, with comments about how Stephen Hawking would be dead if he were British. Now we have Senator David Vitter suggesting that he wants to [destroy part of Canada’s health care system in order to lower costs for Americans](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/vitter-destroying-canadas-prescription-drug-system-will-lower-prices-for-americans.php). With friends like us, what do these countries need with enemies? Trash them? Propagandize against them? Call them names? Plot to harm them? Let’s go after Australia next! It was bad enough when it was just France. This is ugly behavior, folks. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/2 "2009-08-23T23:05:38Z")
While his plan does sound nigh diabolical enough for him to be petting a white cat while explaining it to Austin Powers, there does seem to be a certain sense to it. From the way he made it sound, his plan would equalize prices. Canada and other countries prices would go up, ours would go down, and they’d presumably meet in the middle. I’ve utterly no idea if it would actually work as planned, but I don’t think it was the assault on our polite northerly neighbors as you do. If he really wanted to swing at them, he could just point out that it’s been a while since they’ve won the Stanley Cup and this year looks no different. Wrap that in a Maple Leaf and smoke it.😉 ---
**Author:** ![StaudtCJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@StaudtCJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StaudtCJ)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/3 "2009-08-24T00:59:40Z")
Wouldn’t it be easier to just repeal the laws that say the U.S. can’t negotiate prices with the drug companies? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/4 "2009-08-24T01:15:31Z")
> [@StaudtCJ](#): > > Wouldn’t it be easier to just repeal the laws that say the U.S. can’t negotiate prices with the drug companies? Socialist! That said 😛 , I have to assume that the drug companies are making a profit in the rest of the world, or they wouldn’t be selling their product outside the U.S., and I don’t see why this nation’s policy should be to fuck up the rest of the world. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/5 "2009-08-24T02:04:03Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > While his plan does sound nigh diabolical enough for him to be petting a white cat while explaining it to Austin Powers, there does seem to be a certain sense to it. From the way he made it sound, his plan would equalize prices. Canada and other countries prices would go up, ours would go down, and they’d presumably meet in the middle. I’ve utterly no idea if it would actually work as planned, but I don’t think it was the assault on our polite northerly neighbors as you do. The inevitable result would simply be that Canada et al. would prohibit, or at least make very difficult, re-export of imported drugs. Or they’d figure out some way to make a profit on re-exportation, keep all the extra money, and giggle all the way to the bank. It’s not like you could keep this little plan a secret. Unless you’re planning on physically shipping the patients across the border to fill their prescriptions, this only works if done on a large scale, so it’d be trivially easy for another government to slap duties on drug exportation. The plan isn’t so much an attack on Canada or the UK as it is on the drug companies, who’re maximizing their profit according to local conditions; this plan is basically the U.S. _using another government_ to get lower prices by using their rules against the drug companies. There’s no reason why it would cause the system to collapse, but it would cause awful problems for politicians who’d be subjected to withering attacks by drug companies. [QUOTE=Frank] I have to assume that the drug companies are making a profit in the rest of the world, or they wouldn’t be selling their product outside the U.S., and I don’t see why this nation’s policy should be to fuck up the rest of the world. [/QUOTE] Well, of course, on the first point you are correct. The drug companies make lots of profit elsewhere. And of course, price controls (such as they are; the cheapness of Canadian drugs is greatly overstated. Believe me, I am relieved I have a private drug plan) have nothing to do with drug prices in the USA, which are set by market forces. But, just to play devil’s advocate, isn’t it the job of the US government to provide benefits to US citizens? If buying cheap drugs in quantity from Canada would assist in helping Americans afford their prescriptions, then that’s at least something American politicians should discuss, isn’t it? As I explained above I don’t think it WOULD screw Canada over, and if it threatened to do so the plan would be nixed by some Canadian law, but it’s not David Vitter’s job to worry about what some Canadian fogey pays for his heart meds. It’s his job to worry about what American fogeys pay for their heart meds. Playing trade games is just part of international relations; it’s not like he’s suggesting war. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/6 "2009-08-24T02:42:27Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > First came the insulting propaganda attacks on the NHS, with comments about how Stephen Hawking would be dead if he were British. > > Now we have Senator David Vitter suggesting that he wants to [destroy part of Canada’s health care system in order to lower costs for Americans](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/vitter-destroying-canadas-prescription-drug-system-will-lower-prices-for-americans.php). > > With friends like us, what do these countries need with enemies? Trash them? Propagandize against them? Call them names? Plot to harm them? > > Let’s go after Australia next! > > It was bad enough when it was just France. This is ugly behavior, folks. That’s not surprising. There’s always been a strain of xenophobia in American right-wing circles. To them, the fact that such socialist concepts like government-run healthcare have caught on in Canada, Europe, and Australia is proof of their weak character and demonstrates why, even if they say they’re democratic and support us, we should regard them with at least a little bit of suspicion. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/7 "2009-08-24T02:49:34Z")
But aren’t the drugs Canada gets needed by Canadians? What impact would the U.S. reimporting Canada’s drug supply have on their healthcare system? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/8 "2009-08-24T03:05:20Z")
Canada has negotiated/mandated lower prices from the drug companies. The same drug that they pay x dollars for we by 10x dollars. So we buy the drugs from Canada and sell them here for 5x dollars. Of course Canada is so stupid that they won’t mark up their drugs at all. In fact they will probably sell it to us for less then what they paid for it. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/9 "2009-08-24T03:30:58Z")
When I saw the thread title, I thought this was going to be about the Buy-American restrictions in the stimulus. There have been [recurrent](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/10/AR2009081002834.html) [news](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/obama-underplays-buy-american-policy/article1247464/) [reports](http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/Obama+hard+believe+trade/1884233/story.html) over the last several months that our restrictions on letting Canadians bid on stimulus projects is causing some upset up north. As for drug reimportation from Canada, the idea has long had supporters in [both](http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/rep_index.cfm?DR_ID=20248) [parties](http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/97407.php) here, and the dangers that it poses to the Canadian market’s ability to maintain a separate pricing structure have been [recognized](http://www.aims.ca/pharmaceuticals.asp?typeID=4&id=1889&fd=0&p=1) for some time. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/10 "2009-08-24T03:35:41Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > But, just to play devil’s advocate, isn’t it the job of the US government to provide benefits to US citizens? If buying cheap drugs in quantity from Canada would assist in helping Americans afford their prescriptions, then that’s at least something American politicians should discuss, isn’t it? As I explained above I don’t think it WOULD screw Canada over, and if it threatened to do so the plan would be nixed by some Canadian law, but it’s not David Vitter’s job to worry about what some Canadian fogey pays for his heart meds. It’s his job to worry about what American fogeys pay for their heart meds. Playing trade games is just part of international relations; it’s not like he’s suggesting war. I dunno. To me, there’s a difference between, “This policy will help Americans” and “My goal is to destroy part of an ally’s health care system. Oh and it should help Americans, too.” That’s how Vitter’s comments struck me. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/11 "2009-08-24T05:10:39Z")
It’s not really an issue; if drug reimportation was actually costing the Canadian healthcare authorities money they’d ban it real fast. It does make him sound like a dick, though. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/12 "2009-08-24T05:34:07Z")
Just for the record, Canada doesn’t negotiate drug prices with drug companies. It sets prices\* via outright price controls - on drugs covered by patents. Out of patent drugs are not price-regulated in any way that I’m aware of. \*Well, not exactly. It sets a maximum price. The drug companies are free to sell for less if they want. It’s at least theoretically possible that the profit-maximizing price would be lower than the government-set maximum, though not terribly likely since these are always monopoly situations due to the patents. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/13 "2009-08-24T05:39:45Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > First came the insulting propaganda attacks on the NHS, with comments about how Stephen Hawking would be dead if he were British. > > Now we have Senator David Vitter suggesting that he wants to [destroy part of Canada’s health care system in order to lower costs for Americans](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/vitter-destroying-canadas-prescription-drug-system-will-lower-prices-for-americans.php). > > With friends like us, what do these countries need with enemies? Trash them? Propagandize against them? Call them names? Plot to harm them? > > Let’s go after Australia next! > > It was bad enough when it was just France. This is ugly behavior, folks. Can you explain to me why Canada deserves low drug prices but we don’t? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/14 "2009-08-24T05:41:17Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Socialist! > > That said 😛 , I have to assume that the drug companies are making a profit in the rest of the world, or they wouldn’t be selling their product outside the U.S., and I don’t see why this nation’s policy should be to fuck up the rest of the world. Profits are not made on individual units, they are made off of the sale of all of them. If you averaged the price of every pill yes it would be profitable, but they still might be selling in some markets below cost. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/15 "2009-08-24T05:41:48Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Can you explain to me why Canada deserves low drug prices but we don’t? Because they legislate for them and we haven’t? > [@](#): > > Profits are not made on individual units, they are made off of the sale of all of them. If you averaged the price of every pill yes it would be profitable, but they still might be selling in some markets below cost. Hey… crazy idea: _if you’re losing money selling pills in Canada, stop selling pills in Canada_. Now that I think about it, seems to be the drug companies would probably have figured that out by themselves if they were losing money in a certain market. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/16 "2009-08-24T05:41:59Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Can you explain to me why Canada deserves low drug prices but we don’t? Because they have a government that provides for mediocre UHC rather than no UHC at all? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/17 "2009-08-24T05:42:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Because they legislate for them and we haven’t? I guess we need to get on that so that Canada can pay more. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/18 "2009-08-24T05:42:54Z")
Wow what an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/19 "2009-08-24T05:44:56Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I guess we need to get on that so that Canada can pay more. You’re being an asshole too. Just because the American health care system is defective is no reason to throw a hissy fit and ruin things for everybody else. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/20 "2009-08-24T05:48:01Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > You’re being an asshole too. Just because the American health care system is defective is no reason to throw a hissy fit and ruin things for everybody else. I’m an asshole because I think Canada should pay the same prices we have to? You have a strange definition of asshole. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433.md?page=2)