# With friends like us, what do the UK and Canada need with enemies? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 23, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433 "2009-08-23T22:56:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/21 "2009-08-24T05:48:46Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I guess we need to get on that so that Canada can pay more. As I’ve pointed out in various ‘comparative healthcare’ threads, the cost of doing business in virtually every other industrialized nation is much lower because direct-to-consumer advertising of prescription drugs is banned. Only the US and New Zealand allow it. In any case, we can’t ‘get on that’ unless we adopt universal health care. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/22 "2009-08-24T05:50:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > As I’ve pointed out in various ‘comparative healthcare’ threads, the cost of doing business in virtually every other industrialized nation is much lower because direct-to-consumer advertising of prescription drugs is banned. That’s irrelevant though. The real cost is in the research. > [@](#): > > Only the US and New Zealand allow it. It should be banned here too. What does the individual consumer need advertising for a drug they can’t get without a Doctor’s prescription anyway? > [@](#): > > In any case, we can’t ‘get on that’ unless we adopt universal health care. Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/23 "2009-08-24T05:51:32Z")
Vitter’s plan actually sounds kind of cool. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/24 "2009-08-24T05:56:53Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I’m an asshole because I think Canada should pay the same prices we have to? > > You have a strange definition of asshole. You know the US could get Canada’s deal right? All it takes is a little change in law. But noooo instead you and that asshole wanna throw feces at the world and scream like brain damaged bonobos till Canada is being ripped off as well. Fuck that. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/25 "2009-08-24T06:08:12Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > First came the insulting propaganda attacks on the NHS, with comments about how Stephen Hawking would be dead if he were British. I’m puzzled. Stephen Hawking is British, and unless someone with a very bad sense of humour and extensive knowledge of animatronics has been having a bit of fun, doesn’t seem to be dead. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/26 "2009-08-24T06:13:30Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > I’m puzzled. Stephen Hawking is British, and unless someone with a very bad sense of humour and extensive knowledge of animatronics has been having a bit of fun, doesn’t seem to be dead. That’s the best part. The Tea baggers don’t know he’s British, apparently. That’s how out of touch they are. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/27 "2009-08-24T06:24:26Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > You know the US could get Canada’s deal right? All it takes is a little change in law. But noooo instead you and that asshole wanna throw feces at the world and scream like brain damaged bonobos till Canada is being ripped off as well. > > Fuck that. yes, and if the US had Canada’s deal then Canada wouldn’t be able to have it anymore because then the US wouldn’t be subsidizing Canada’s lower prices anymore. And excuse me you’re the one throwing feces. I am merely admiring an elegant solution to price fixing that fucks us in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/28 "2009-08-24T06:50:35Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > But aren’t the drugs Canada gets needed by Canadians? What impact would the U.S. reimporting Canada’s drug supply have on their healthcare system? Clearly, Canada has a limitless supply of drugs. They have universal health care, so there’s no need to ration anything. I’m sure Vitter understands that. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/29 "2009-08-24T06:52:06Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Clearly, Canada has a limitless supply of drugs. They have universal health care, so there’s no need to ration anything. I’m sure Vitter understands that. Whoa a rational criticism. None of that here! ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/30 "2009-08-24T07:58:14Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > yes, and if the US had Canada’s deal then Canada wouldn’t be able to have it anymore because then the US wouldn’t be subsidizing Canada’s lower prices anymore. Of course, for you to think that the deal Canada has somehow being subsidised by the US, you’d have to be a fucking idiot. Because you’d have to somehow think that even at Canadian pricing Pharma companies weren’t enjoying a profit margin far beyond any other industry, even allowing for R&D costs. Which would suggest you’d not bothered to check any background at all, were completely ignorant of the most basic facts (such as pharma companies being consistently the most profitable in the world, with average profits in relation to turnover 4 or 5 times that of other Fortune 500 companies), investing only a small percentage of their costs in R&D (their marketing expenditure is far greater than their R&D budget). So really, how am I to construe your stance here other than you’re an idiot talking out of your arse on a subject you’re completely ignorant on? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/31 "2009-08-24T08:03:08Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Of course, for you to think that the deal Canada has somehow being subsidised by the US, you’d have to be a fucking idiot. Umm no, I would just have to know that America pays higher prices to make up for the lower prices in all of the rest of the world. > [@](#): > > Because you’d have to somehow think that even at Canadian pricing Pharma companies weren’t enjoying a profit margin far beyond any other industry, even allowing for R&D costs. There’s a scale, the stuff goes down in price from first world nations to third world ones, obviously. You’d have to be an idiot not to know this. > [@](#): > > Which would suggest you’d not bothered to check any background at all, were completely ignorant of the most basic facts (such as pharma companies being consistently the most profitable in the world, with average profits in relation to turnover 4 or 5 times that of other Fortune 500 companies), investing only a small percentage of their costs in R&D (their marketing expenditure is far greater than their R&D budget). No, it just says that you assume some shit because you came here to be snarky and get your jollies out of it. I know a bit about it because my Father works in the industry. I know that their profits are ridiculous. That’s something that would be ameliorated if we bought in at Canadian prices now isn’t it? > [@](#): > > So really, how am I to construe your stance here other than you’re an idiot talking out of your arse on a subject you’re completely ignorant on? I don’t care whether you think I’m an idiot or not. After this post I certainly think that YOU are. If you think that I’m stupid for wanting to pay Canadian prices for meds then I really couldn’t give a shit what you think. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/32 "2009-08-24T08:11:16Z")
I’m probably missing something, but why should Canadians have to pay more for medicine just because Americans do? I mean, America drives on the right hand side of the road. Perhaps every country on Earth should switch to driving on the right hand side of the road, so it’s easier for Americans on holiday in the UK or Australia or Japan? Wine is cheaper in Australia too. Perhaps we should pay more for that? And most other civilised countries have a drinking age of something sensible like 18. But it’s 21 in the US, which means 18-20yo Americans on holiday can… gasp… legally drink! Nope, can’t have that. Every country on the planet needs to raise their drinking age immediately, purely for the benefit of the US, you see. Rather than nobbling Canada’s healthcare system, sort the US one out without throwing a tantrum and insisting that everyone else kowtow to your messed up system. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/33 "2009-08-24T08:15:03Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’m probably missing something, but why should Canadians have to pay more for medicine just because Americans do? Because pharma companies make the profits they do by gouging Americans. If Americans paid less they’d work to get higher rates from other countries. It’s pretty mundane really. > [@](#): > > I mean, America drives on the right hand side of the road. Perhaps every country on Earth should switch to driving on the right hand side of the road, so it’s easier for Americans on holiday in the UK or Australia or Japan? I’d put the martini down now. > [@](#): > > Wine is cheaper in Australia too. Perhaps we should pay more for that? How much does wine cost because it’s pretty damn cheap in America, anywhere from like $ 2 a bottle on up. > [@](#): > > And most other civilised countries have a drinking age of something sensible like 18. But it’s 21 in the US, which means 18-20yo Americans on holiday can… gasp… legally drink! Nope, can’t have that. Every country on the planet needs to raise their drinking age immediately, purely for the benefit of the US, you see. Yeah, PUT THE MARTINI DOWN. > [@](#): > > Rather than nobbling Canada’s healthcare system, sort the US one out without throwing a tantrum and insisting that everyone else kowtow to your messed up system. If America got a deal like Canada’s Canada would see their prices go up when the contracts are renegotiated. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/34 "2009-08-24T08:22:29Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I don’t care whether you think I’m an idiot or not. After this post I certainly think that YOU are. If you think that I’m stupid for wanting to pay Canadian prices for meds then I really couldn’t give a shit what you think. What you said was “if the US had Canada’s deal then Canada wouldn’t be able to have it anymore because then the US wouldn’t be subsidizing Canada’s lower prices anymore.” And that is why I think you’re fucking stupid. If you’d said that all you wanted was that you think the US should impose similar price restrictions, I would think you had a point. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/35 "2009-08-24T08:26:30Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Because pharma companies make the profits they do by gouging Americans…If America got a deal like Canada’s Canada would see their prices go up when the contracts are renegotiated. Bullshit. Pharma companies enjoy near monopolistic conditions due to cost to enter that market. As such, it’s completely reasonable to impose stricter regulation on their pricing than in other markets which are more competitive. It’s completely possible to do this and still let them earn fucking huge profits - just more in line with other industries, 8% of net turnover rather than 17/18%. They will still want to sell drugs in the US and Canada. They will still have just as much money to do R&D. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/36 "2009-08-24T08:28:08Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Because pharma companies make the profits they do by gouging Americans. If Americans paid less they’d work to get higher rates from other countries. It’s pretty mundane really. So everyone else on Earth should pay higher costs for medicines just so people living in the Centre Of The Universe can have a discount on theirs? No, I don’t think that’s fair. > [@](#): > > How much does wine cost because it’s pretty damn cheap in America, anywhere from like $ 2 a bottle on up. It’s about the same, but try buying a bottle of Barossa Valley anything in the US for $2 and see how far you get (If you do manage to find some, grab the lot!). > [@](#): > > If America got a deal like Canada’s Canada would see their prices go up when the contracts are renegotiated. That’s not a given, and knowing the Canadians they’d work around it somehow so that any price increases didn’t end up affecting people’s wallets anyway, I’d say. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/37 "2009-08-24T08:37:56Z")
But _can_ you buy those drugs in bulk in the countries that have those regulated prices, in order to reimport them? In Spain at least, you need a special governemnt license in order to be able to buy medicines in bulk (basically you need to be a distributor of some sort, either a medical warehouse, NPO, pharmacist or hospital). ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/38 "2009-08-24T09:02:18Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > So everyone else on Earth should pay higher costs for medicines just so people living in the Centre Of The Universe can have a discount on theirs? No, I don’t think that’s fair. Are you really this uncomprehending or are you pretending? The way it is right now is the exact opposite of what you describe. Americans pay a premium so everyone else can have it cheaper. If Americans paid a lower price they’d jack up the prices elsewhere. So really the question is, ‘Why should Americans pay a higher price so Canadians can have a discount on theirs?’ > [@](#): > > It’s about the same, but try buying a bottle of Barossa Valley anything in the US for $2 and see how far you get (If you do manage to find some, grab the lot!). Where is Barossa Valley? 2 is cheap wine here, average is somewhere between 7 and 20 a bottle. I like Bex Riesling at about 12 per bottle. > [@](#): > > That’s not a given, and knowing the Canadians they’d work around it somehow so that any price increases didn’t end up affecting people’s wallets anyway, I’d say. Perhaps, perhaps not. The drug companies would be looking to make up their profit shortfalls somewhere. > [@Nava](#): > > But _can_ you buy those drugs in bulk in the countries that have those regulated prices, in order to reimport them? In Spain at least, you need a special governemnt license in order to be able to buy medicines in bulk (basically you need to be a distributor of some sort, either a medical warehouse, NPO, pharmacist or hospital). No, you can’t. He wasn’t serious, he was just pounding the table about Canadian prices being so much lower than ours. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/39 "2009-08-24T09:58:10Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Are you really this uncomprehending or are you pretending? The way it is right now is the exact opposite of what you describe. Americans pay a premium so everyone else can have it cheaper. If Americans paid a lower price they’d jack up the prices elsewhere. So really the question is, ‘Why should Americans pay a higher price so Canadians can have a discount on theirs?’ Let’s put the shoe on the other foot for a moment. Let’s pretend that the situation is reversed, and that Canada has stupidly expensive medicine and it’s really cheap in the US. Canada advocates that medicine cost more in the US so that the price “evens out” a wee bit. But people in the US will end up paying significantly more, and people in Canada won’t end up paying significantly less. Would you honestly, truthfully, genuinely say “Gosh, that’s fair. I’m quite happy to pay even more money for something that’s already expensive just so people in a neighbouring country don’t feel so bad about the situation”? Of course you wouldn’t. And if you would, you’d be in a tiny minority along with other Altruists like Mother Theresa and Gandhi. > [@](#): > > Where is Barossa Valley? 2 is cheap wine here, average is somewhere between 7 and 20 a bottle. I like Bex Riesling at about 12 per bottle. The Barossa Valley is one of the world’s great wine producing regions and is located in South Australia. There are some excellent Reds coming out there, which can be had for as little as $2 a bottle for “cleanskin” wine and about $10-25 a bottle for the decent stuff. It goes up from there, of course, as all wine does… ---
**Author:** ![WILLASS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/54ee81/32.png) [@WILLASS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WILLASS)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/40 "2009-08-24T11:10:56Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > I’m puzzled. Stephen Hawking is British, and unless someone with a very bad sense of humour and extensive knowledge of animatronics has been having a bit of fun, doesn’t seem to be dead. Well he does have an American accent… I don’t really have an opinion on this argument but I too was intrigued by the statement that Hawkings ‘would have died if he was British’ seeing as he’s done a pretty good job of surviving (against the odds I might add surely making this an example of how well the British system works no?) so far! Just a quick ignorance fighting question but I’ve always wanted to know how the pharma company’s advertising works in the US? Do they advertise drugs that you can only get on prescription? If this is true do you wind up with people requesting certain brand drugs from Drs? Do Drs promote certain brands (possible ‘kickbacks’ involved?) To a Britisher used to a ‘you get what you’re given’ system this seems highly strange and kind of pointless. Why not just take what your Dr suggests? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433.md?page=3)