# With Gays Like These, Who Needs Enemies? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 23, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679 "2004-04-23T18:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/1 "2004-04-23T18:21:39Z")
(1010 WINS) (NEW YORK) Two gay lovers — a man in a black dress and a boy in only a pair of shorts — protested their families’ lack of understanding for their relationship by climbing a Central Park tree on Thursday, stripping, performing lewd acts in front of onlookers and refusing to come down for hours. —Thanks, guys. More fodder for the right-wing religious lunatics. Though I _am_ impressed by your balancing skills. ---
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/2 "2004-04-23T18:27:54Z")
This was one of the more interesting stories I read today. In the article I read there was a great quote from an australian tourist along the lines of “Wow, we never have stuff like this happen at home!”. 😃 Oddly enough, they carted them away to a mental ward when they finally got them down. I don’t envy that kid that call to his parents… ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/3 "2004-04-23T18:48:43Z")
A joke about fruit trees would be in really poor taste, wouldn’t it? I’ll keep my mouth shut, then. My favorite part of the story is the crowd that apparently gathered. Hey, it’s free entertainment, right? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/4 "2004-04-23T18:51:58Z")
[NY Daily News article](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/186582p-161666c.html) ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/5 "2004-04-23T19:07:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Earlier, the teen told cops that his parents did not approve of his relationship with his newly bosomy pal. “I want my mother and my psychologist,” he yelled. It says police rescued them with a couple of “cherrypickers”. Little late for that, don’tcha think? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/6 "2004-04-23T19:18:41Z")
**Eve:** _Thanks, guys. More fodder for the right-wing religious lunatics._ Y’know, one of the worst things about discrimination, IMO, is the way it makes every member of an oppressed group a sort of trustee of the group’s collective dignity. If two heterosexual lovers did these kinds of unbalanced balancing acts in a public place and were carted off to a mental ward at the end of it, nobody would accuse them of tarnishing the image of heterosexuality in general or exposing heterosexuals to additional insults from heterophobes. Every gay person, however, is expected to be a bright shining beacon for socially responsible gayness, or else they’re letting their team down. I don’t like this double standard and I don’t think non-homophobes should go along with it. I say, homosexuals are going to have their share of mentally disturbed people and attitudinal nutcases just as heterosexuals do, and I don’t think we should add to their problems by reproaching them for the fact that bigots are inevitably going to judge all gay people by their personal deranged behavior. If, on the other hand, you want to reproach said bigots—i.e., wait for some knuckle-dragger to point to this messed-up couple as an example of what’s wrong with gays in general, and then thrash him with your purse as you vehemently denounce him for unjustifiably assuming that **all** gays are troubled exhibitionists—I’m right there with you. And I’ve got a nice heavy purse, too. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/7 "2004-04-23T19:19:08Z")
> [@](#): > > " . . . a 17-year-old boy and a 32-year-old preoperative transsexual offered an X-rated sex spectacle . . . " Oh, that was the “man in a black dress?” Now I’m even _more_ pissed-off at these assclowns. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/8 "2004-04-23T19:20:15Z")
Oh don’t be such a judgmental Judy… like you’ve never climbed a tree in Central Park and publicly performed a lewd act to heck off your family in your life! ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/9 "2004-04-23T19:21:00Z")
. . . Although you really have to admire this: > [@](#): > > At one point, the older of the couple broke off a branch and threatened to throw it at cops, before demanding a vanilla diet Pepsi. When police handed up a regular old diet Pepsi, the 32-year-old hurled the can to the ground, screamed, “Vanilla!” and declared, “What I say goes!” ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/10 "2004-04-23T19:23:56Z")
On the other hand . . . > [@](#): > > The couple also shouted complaints about the portrayal of transgender people in the media . . . Oh, well, _this_ is sure to improve the situation. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/11 "2004-04-23T19:25:27Z")
That isn’t public indecency, that’s _performance art._ ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/12 "2004-04-23T19:25:45Z")
Pepsi?? :eek: Fuck 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/13 "2004-04-23T19:26:30Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Oh, that was the “man in a black dress?” Now I’m even more pissed-off at these assclowns. Why does that make you “even more pissed-off”? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![jellytoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb9ed0/32.png) [@jellytoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellytoes)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/14 "2004-04-23T19:52:03Z")
I’ll hazard a guess that it was the age difference that pissed **Eve** off even more. I have to admit that it was quite shocking to me. A 32 year-old man with a 17-year old boy? Ouch. ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/15 "2004-04-23T19:52:34Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > **Eve:** _Thanks, guys. More fodder for the right-wing religious lunatics._ > > Y’know, one of the worst things about discrimination, IMO, is the way it makes every member of an oppressed group a sort of trustee of the group’s collective dignity. Amen to that says Auntie EM, who is an embarrassment to her fellow Black people everywhere with her love of the Allman Brothers . . . ! 😉 As for the OP, I don’t get it . . . if what they’re protesting is lack of acceptance on the part of their _families_, why didn’t they climb a tree in Mom and Dad’s front yard? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Poetgrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@Poetgrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poetgrrl)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/16 "2004-04-23T19:53:58Z")
I’m surprised nobody is disturbed by the age difference between the two people. Had the 17-year old been a girl, it would have taken about 2 seconds for some doper to label the older guy as a ‘predator’ since it seems like people on the board (particularly the pit) have such a short fuse when it comes to those types of relationships. I guess just being gay overshawdowed the rather blatant fact that the older man was performing lewd acts on a minor, and most likely statuatory rape. But I guess that only applies in hetero couples where the girl is the underage one :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/17 "2004-04-23T19:58:00Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > **Eve:** _Thanks, guys. More fodder for the right-wing religious lunatics._ > > Y’know, one of the worst things about discrimination, IMO, is the way it makes every member of an oppressed group a sort of trustee of the group’s collective dignity. If two heterosexual lovers did these kinds of unbalanced balancing acts in a public place and were carted off to a mental ward at the end of it, nobody would accuse them of tarnishing the image of heterosexuality in general or exposing heterosexuals to additional insults from heterophobes. Every gay person, however, is expected to be a bright shining beacon for socially responsible gayness, or else they’re letting their team down. I don’t know that it’s fair, **Kimstu** , but it does happen. And not just with homosexuals. Any minority group will be judged by the most visible members of that group. Hell, let’s face it, the media enjoy finding the most colorful people to interview when presenting these groups to the mainstream. Consider who the most well-known proponents of Islam are, or the most visible of any fringe group. I don’t say it’s right. And when this example is used by bigots to deride all homosexuals you’ve got the right attitude for how to deal with it. But the propriety of the argument has nothing to do with whether the argument will be used. Alas. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/18 "2004-04-23T20:02:02Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > That isn’t public indecency, that’s _performance art._ Maybe. But from what I can tell, the performers totally blew. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/19 "2004-04-23T20:06:30Z")
> [@Poetgrrl](#): > > I guess just being gay overshawdowed the rather blatant fact that the older man was performing lewd acts on a minor, and most likely statuatory rape. But I guess that only applies in hetero couples where the girl is the underage one :rolleyes: Is a seventeen year old a minor with regards to ‘lewd acts’ in New York State? I’d be _very_ surprised if this was the case. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679/20 "2004-04-23T20:07:55Z")
> [@Poetgrrl](#): > > I guess just being gay overshawdowed the rather blatant fact that the older man was performing lewd acts on a minor, and most likely statuatory rape. Except that the age of consent in the US is 16. Perhaps you best take your outraged indignation at the double standard of dopers, and your rollie-eyed smilie to a different thread, ummK? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-gays-like-these-who-needs-enemies/241679.md?page=2)