# with respect to rap music... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 22, 2002, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352 "2002-12-22T07:40:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![raindog1974](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f19dbf/32.png) [@raindog1974](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog1974)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/41 "2002-12-25T12:08:01Z")
I’d say check out some Sole, Sage Francis, Eyedea, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Roots, Common, and Outkast. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/42 "2002-12-25T17:27:47Z")
Jay-Z isn’t a hack. Listen to **Reasonable Doubt**. He just came down with Snoop syndrome, where you’ve become such a name that you can go multi-platinum without putting any effort into your albums anymore, so your new stuff is crap. ---
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/43 "2002-12-25T18:06:31Z")
Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Blackstar, A Tribe Called Quest, The Roots. Then for some gangsta rap: Notorious BIG, Tupac Shakur, Nas, Lost Boyz, Big L, Dr Dre. ---
**Author:** ![japatlgt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@japatlgt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/japatlgt)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/44 "2002-12-25T18:36:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elfkin477 \* > \*\* I don’t like rap or hip-hop as a general rule (although hip-hop by some female artists is definitely better than most pop) \*\* Ding, Ding, Ding! Another winner, Freddy! ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/45 "2002-12-25T19:00:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MeanOldLady \* > \*\*Reading a profile… that’s some great detective work there. \*\* Here’s a hint: my point had absolutely nothing to do with my “detective work”. Whether or not I read your profile is irrelevant (I didn’t…really, it didn’t take much thought to figure it out). I was the same way when I was your age. If I thought something sucked, then any opinions otherwise were \*\*WRONG \*\*. And wouldn’t tolerate any other opinions. I had the sneer down and everything. I try to be more tolerant now. ---
**Author:** ![JaxBeachBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@JaxBeachBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaxBeachBoy)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/46 "2002-12-25T19:11:33Z")
Rap became very boring to me in the early 90s…blame it on Dre’s climb to the top of the pop charts, followed by Puffy and Will Smith’s all out assault on the top 40(in which between them, they produced nary a single original track). The entire hip hop world went downhill from there. It is all so mainstream and geared to sell albums that I can’t stand to listen to any of it. I’m sure there are some groundbreaking acts out there, I just don’t have the patience to trod through the crap to find them. Having said that, I must admit that Wu-Tang clan, and their entourage, is the one holdover from the early-mid 90s that I’ve always found to be lyrically and musically groundbreaking. Eminem has wonderful mic ability, and can make things rhyme that have no business being there, but he is too predictable. Lemme predict his next album: one song about whatever new drug is on the streets…one song about his ex…one about his mom…3 about whatever rappers he is battling currently…1 about whatever celebrities he is mad about…blah blah blah If you want to hear creative, lyrically intense artists, go back to the mid-late 80s… Eric B+Rakim EPMD Digital Underground(with the pre-DeathRow Tupac) Big Daddy Kane KRS-ONE Public Enemy I still have hopes for rap music…we are in it’s 3rd decade, and if you correlate it to rock’s history 50’s rock= 1975-1985 rap simplistic, but everything is new 60s rock= 1985-1992 rap music evolves to deliver social messages 70s rock= 1993-2003 rap which means that today’s rap is most like disco, and I cannot think of a better way to desribe how non-important it is. actually in the last 5 years I have moved into listening almost exclusively to house/techno/breakbeat…the beats are the same ones I listened to when I was listening to the earliest rap in the late 70s/early 80s. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/47 "2002-12-25T23:39:21Z")
Oh please. This has nothing to do w/ anybody’s opinion. You can listen to Nelly til the cows come home for all I care. I’m saying just b/c someone would rather listen to Nelly yack about his Escalade (or whatever kind of car he has), doesn’t mean that NO hip hop music has substance. And it _sure as hell_ doesn’t mean Nelly is any good just b/c teens from the burbs buy his CDs in an effort to feel “down.” I think he sucks and Kweli is infinitely better. Sue me. Now if you’ll excuse me, I just got Common’s new CD for Xmas. I think I’ll listen to it now. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/48 "2002-12-26T03:50:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MeanOldLady \* > \*\*Oh please. This has nothing to do w/ anybody’s opinion. \*\* It is **all** about opinion. And _your_ opinion is not gospel. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MeanOldLady \* > \*\*You can listen to Nelly til the cows come home for all I care. I’m saying just b/c someone would rather listen to Nelly yack about his Escalade (or whatever kind of car he has), doesn’t mean that NO hip hop music has substance. \*\* Who in the hell in this thread is saying hip hop has no substance? You are the only one insisting that certain artists are “crap” and “cheesy”. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MeanOldLady \* > \*\* > And it _sure as hell_ doesn’t mean Nelly is any good just b/c teens from the burbs buy his CDs in an effort to feel “down.” I think he sucks and Kweli is infinitely better. Sue me. Now if you’ll excuse me, I just got Common’s new CD for Xmas. I think I’ll listen to it now. \*\* There you go again assuming you know who is listening to what and their motivation for doing so. Why don’t we let **MeanOldLady** list the all hip hop artists that she likes and just close the thread. Anybody who disagrees with her is a poseur… Because it’s not about _opinion_. At least not anyone’s but hers. ---
**Author:** ![elephant\_shoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@elephant\_shoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elephant_shoes)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/49 "2002-12-26T04:53:36Z")
This is pretty simple to break down. **MeanOldLady** , and the folks who back her up just don’t like pop music. Hip Hop makes up a good chunk of popular music today, which is why MTV is full of it. If you’re going to compare Eminem with Talib Kweli, you might as well put Britney Spears on the same list as Joni Mitchell. Right next to Talib, is Mos Def. These are fellas with rhymes like you’re not going to hear anywhere else. The insight, the heartfelt messages of the power of one are like nothing you’re going to hear anywhere else. And the beats are better than most, too. But perhaps it’s just too deep for the 13-24 year olds who are out buying the Nelly albums. And, so… re: the OP: Em’s got the beats. And Em’s got the lyrical content FOR SURE. He’s angrier, and more full of hate, I think, so his lyrics are bound to reflect that. But the man can rhyme. No question. And I really enjoy hearing Jay-Z tear Nas up. Pop music or no, Jay-Z buries Nas. Every time. Sorry, MeanOldLady. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/50 "2002-12-26T05:06:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by \*\*elephant shoes \*\*\* > MTV is full of it. Period end of story. ---
**Author:** ![Lux\_Fiat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bc79bd/32.png) [@Lux\_Fiat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lux_Fiat)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/51 "2002-12-26T06:50:09Z")
**Biggirl** , you have betrayed People of Color Everywhere with your like of popular music. Your willingness to shake your ass is a personal affront to each wanky, music-snob ouroboros who has ever not been invited to a party in middle school. I hope you’re proud of yourself. To **krazy kat** : I don’t think Eminem’s the only good thing hip-hop has to offer these days, by a long shot, though I have to say I love the hell out of “Lose Yourself.” I don’t care if I share that love with every high school sports team that needs an anthem to play when it jogs into the gym. By Christ, that song touches the Angry Young Optimist in me like the finger of God. Here are hip-hop artists who make me happy these days: Nas, Cannibal Ox, The Roots (_Phrenology_. Sweet Jesus), Dan the Automator (especially the _Deltron 3030_ album with Del tha Funky Homosapien and Kid Koala), Blackstar, and yes, Eminem. A short list, because I am an old man, and have been betraying my hatred for nostalgia by looking back at the stuff that made me happy when I were a lad: A Tribe Called Quest, Beastie Boys (_Paul’s Boutique_ and _Hello Nasty_ are my two favorite albums by them), Run DMC’s _Raising Hell_, Public Enemy’s _Fear of a Black Planet_ (Simplistic beats? Not from the Bomb Squad), Cypress Hill, House of Pain, Onyx (yeah, you heard me), and Black Sheep. It’s possible that Black Sheep’s “The Choice Is Yours” is the greatest get-your-ass-on-the-floor jam of all time. And I don’t dig KRS-One at all. Not that I had any street credibility to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/52 "2002-12-26T08:38:40Z")
Wow, looks like I have a fan. All righty, **Biggirl** , listen up (and then shut up). Am I imagining things or did you say if I’m looking for lyrical content, hip hop is the wrong genre? It’s all about the rhythm and not the lyrics? That was you, yes? Thought so. Moving along, yes, I insist that rapping about “bodacious” ass and fancy cars is cheesy. If you like it, fine. I don’t care about what you’re listening to. Knock yourself out w/ Nelly. I’m not into funky beats as much as I am great lyrics. Btw, Common’s new CD is awesome. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/53 "2002-12-26T08:40:22Z")
**Lux** , wherever did you get the idea that **Biggirl** is colored? I sincerely doubt she is. ---
**Author:** ![fauxpas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e480ec/32.png) [@fauxpas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fauxpas)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/54 "2002-12-26T10:47:51Z")
By the way those that have not been fluctuated with knowingness: The “H” in Jesus “H” Christ stands for Holy or “hallejia” otherwise annoited one in Hebrew. Anyways, Eminem wouldnt be considered rap, no offense, he would be considered pop cultureistic plausibility, in Lamens terms= hes straight out out da house honest, but the parents see the coarse language, so what, atleast he gets his point out! ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/55 "2002-12-26T11:02:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MeanOldLady \* > \*\ ***Lux** , wherever did you get the idea that **Biggirl** is colored? I sincerely doubt she is. \*\* She is. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/56 "2002-12-26T15:24:23Z")
Here you go **MeanOldLady** , a thread just for you in the proper forum for telling people to shut up. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=152666](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=152666) ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/57 "2002-12-26T16:12:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MeanOldLady \* > \*\ ***Lux** , wherever did you get the idea that **Biggirl** is colored? I sincerely doubt she is. \*\* Colored? What year is it, 1950? ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/58 "2002-12-26T16:16:53Z")
Personally, I think we all need to calm down and groove to the rythmic stylings of the best hip-hop/rap band ever… [Air Supply](http://www.airsupplymusic.com) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Nutty\_Bunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d07c76/32.png) [@Nutty\_Bunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nutty_Bunny)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/59 "2002-12-26T18:18:22Z")
Oh…my…God. There’s an Air Supply website? I do believe Armageddon is upon us. This is it! Repent, repent! ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352/60 "2002-12-26T18:25:17Z")
Not to throw water onto the grease fire here…but, I just have to throw in one comment about solely listening to rap/hip-hop/music solely for its lyrical content. It just seems really sad. If you want just lyrics, listening to spoken word, hit a poetry slam etc. That’s not to say that lyrics don’t have their place. Why I was just listening to Air Supply and thought, why yes, I’m All Out of Love too. (thanks Skip for getting that bastage of a song stuck in my head). I really think lyrics are important, but the beats, melody, and all the other nougaty goodness are what make up a song. This will be the only place I’ll regretfully admit that I like the music to “Hit Me Baby One More Time”, I can denounce the lyrics, packaging, performer et al, but the music I can’t say no to. Then again, sometimes the simplest songs with great lyrics make it through, look at “Jane Says” by Janes Addiction. You got (relatively) two chords over and over throughout the whole song but it still is a fantastic song, one might even say bootilicious. Just my ol’ school two cents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-respect-to-rap-music/144352.md?page=4)