# With sauerkraut, why was scurvy on ships a thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 6, 2020, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553 "2020-02-06T17:55:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Grave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/71c47a/32.png) [@Grave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grave)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/21 "2020-02-07T14:28:06Z")
Regarding the time mentioned, shouldn’t the first question be where was cabbage grown as a food? Soured cabbage on a military scale isn’t viable without the means to produce it or seize it ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/22 "2020-02-07T14:32:14Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Jasmine’s link was perfect, and I thank them for that. It was posted in the first reply in this thread. Just sayin’. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/23 "2020-02-07T14:42:24Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderator Note** > > **Jasmine** , please don’t use bold and large fonts in your posts. I’ve noticed you doing this before. It’s distracting and unnecessary. I have edited it out in the previous post and the quote. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator Ok. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/24 "2020-02-07T16:50:45Z")
> [@Telperion](#): > > I’d go with not. Sailors back in the day largely subsisted on hard tack, they’d probably eat anything that moved slower than them. Hardtack, aka Ship’s Biscuit, was often full of weevils. Sailors would bang the biscuit on the table and eat whatever critters didn’t scurry away. Apparently “millers” were a common meal onboard, too. Also known as rats. I imagine salt pork and weevily biscuits have to be pretty bad for the rats to look like an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/25 "2020-02-07T17:15:51Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Hardtack, aka Ship’s Biscuit, was often full of weevils. Sailors would bang the biscuit on the table and eat whatever critters didn’t scurry away. Apparently “millers” were a common meal onboard, too. Also known as rats. I imagine salt pork and weevily biscuits have to be pretty bad for the rats to look like an improvement. According to [this book](https://www.amazon.com/Lobscouse-Spotted-Dog-Gastronomic-Companion/dp/0393320944), “millers” are surprisingly tasty. ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/26 "2020-02-07T17:33:20Z")
Taste like chicken? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/27 "2020-02-07T17:51:22Z")
I have that book! Haven’t tried that particular recipe yet though. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/28 "2020-02-07T18:35:26Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Hardtack, aka Ship’s Biscuit, was often full of weevils. Sailors would bang the biscuit on the table and eat whatever critters didn’t scurry away. something something “lesser of two weevils” ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/29 "2020-02-07T19:07:51Z")
> [@APB](#): > > That sounds suspiciously like [the old story about Frederick the Great and potatoes](http://scihi.org/frederick-great-potato/). Which, while it is true that Frederick was obsessed with encouraging potato production, is probably apocryphal. Antoine-Augustin Parmentier successfully replicated the same trick in Neuilly-sur-Seine in 1787. This was about the same time Thomas Jefferson was introduced to a new gourmet delicacy at a Parisian banquet: French fries. ETA: They’d been invented in Belgium much earlier, but because Jefferson encountered them in France and then introduced them to America, we know them as French fries. ---
**Author:** ![Bayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bayaker/32/3454_2.png) [@Bayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/30 "2020-02-07T19:08:02Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > I read something a long time ago that I’m wondering if it’s true. The sailors didn’t like the taste of sauerkraut and didn’t want to eat it. The navy tricked the sailors into eating it by labelling the barrels “For Officers Only”. Any truth to that? I probably read it in something like “Ripley’s Believe it or Not”, so I don’t know if I should believe it or not. > [@Telperion](#): > > I’d go with not. Sailors back in the day largely subsisted on hard tack, they’d probably eat anything that moved slower than them. That seems to be almost the way it happened, though it wasn’t labeling, it was the the fact that the officers ate, and actually seemed to like sauerkraut that did the trick. I don’t have it in front of me now, but _The Trial of the Cannibal Dog_, about the voyages of Captain Cook, quotes Cook’s diaries to that effect. IIRC it was on the voyage to Tahiti(for the transit of Venus?) that the seamen were given the kraut, but didn’t like it so they ate very little of it until Cook hit on the idea of making a show of how much he and the officers enjoyed it. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/31 "2020-02-07T19:09:28Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Aren’t lime trees somewhat hardier than orange trees, and therefore can grow at higher latitudes and this made lime juice at least slightly easier for the British to obtain? > > I don’t think homemade sauerkraut is cooked either, unless it’s canned for long-term preservation, something that probably didn’t happen back in the day; more likely, it would have been salted to preserve it. > > Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) was not identified for what it really was until 1930, and this discovery led to a Nobel Prize. > > [Albert Szent-Gyorgyi Vitamin C - Landmark - American Chemical Society](https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/education/whatischemistry/landmarks/szentgyorgyi.html) Actually its the opposite; lemons and limes are the least cold hardy of the citrus trees. They are killed or damaged when temps are in the high 20s. Sweet oranges and grapefruit are slightly more cold tolerant and can withstand temperatures in the mid 20’s before succumbing. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/32 "2020-02-07T19:15:24Z")
If they knew fresh fruit helped with scurvy, would dried fruit have been an option? I would think it would have been a natural substitute for fresh fruit since it stays good longer. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/33 "2020-02-07T20:10:21Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That is not what long-haul ship’s crews were like in the days of sail. Picking up crew members in foreign ports was the norm, not unusual. Now that you say it… That does sound familiar. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/34 "2020-02-07T21:05:48Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Hardtack, aka Ship’s Biscuit, was often full of weevils. Sailors would bang the biscuit on the table and eat whatever critters didn’t scurry away. While disgusting to our modern tastes, insects are an excellent source of protein and vitamins. For people with borderline malnutrition, the weevils were probably a net benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/35 "2020-02-07T22:58:53Z")
> [@bump](#): > > So you’re left with a pretty salty and pretty acidic product- it’s been pickled in the same way that kosher dill pickles are produced, only with cabbage instead of cucumbers. Most commercial sauerkraut doesn’t totally ferment out the cabbage, but homemade kraut will get more sour over time, and lasts for months since it’s been preserved. > > . In Korea, fermented cabbage is kimchi. And one of the joys of spring was the fresh kimchi, after living all winter on kimchi that was gradually getting older and more sour. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/36 "2020-02-08T00:57:24Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > something something “lesser of two weevils” ::applause:: You win the thread! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2020, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/37 "2020-02-08T01:13:12Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > something something “lesser of two weevils” In one of the Jack Aubrey novels, Jack asks the ship’s Doctor which of two weevils he would sponsor in a race. Dr. Maturin chooses the largest. Jack replies the smaller one should be his choice, “You must always pick the lesser of two weevils”. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2020, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/38 "2020-02-08T01:19:08Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > If they knew fresh fruit helped with scurvy, would dried fruit have been an option? I would think it would have been a natural substitute for fresh fruit since it stays good longer. Magellan lost a number of men to scurvy on his crossing of the Pacific, but it is thought that the [quince preserves](https://kennethdschultz.com/2017/04/22/quince-preserves-magellans-antidote-for-scurvy/) he had along helped reduce the toll. However, people didn’t seem to realize that was the reason. In any case, dried fruit has less vitamin C than fresh fruit. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2020, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/39 "2020-02-08T01:26:57Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > In one of the Jack Aubrey novels, Jack asks the ship’s Doctor which of two weevils he would sponsor in a race. Dr. Maturin chooses the largest. Jack replies the smaller one should be his choice, “You must always pick the lesser of two weevils”. Indeed. It’s Jack’s favourite joke, and almost as good/bad as his dining-with-Admiral-Nelson anecdote. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2020, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553/40 "2020-02-08T02:27:02Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > If they knew fresh fruit helped with scurvy, would dried fruit have been an option? I would think it would have been a natural substitute for fresh fruit since it stays good longer. [Nutrient Loss In Dried Foods](https://blog.outdoorherbivore.com/food-301/nutrient-loss-in-dried-foods/) > [@](#): > > The moment fresh food is cut open and exposed to the elements, nutrient loss occurs. For instance, beta-carotene (a precursor to vitamin A) and vitamin C (ascorbic acid) both diminish when food is dried. \<…\> The nutrient loss for commercially-dried foods varies between 30 – 80% for vitamin C and 10 – 50% for vitamin A. The amount of loss is dependent on many factors, including storage time, drying temperature, and dry time. \<…\> Sun drying causes the most nutrient loss while indoor dehydration (using low heat) causes some loss and freeze-drying causes the least amount of loss. Citrus fruits are rather more costly than cabbage and don’t retain vitamins well. Darn. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-sauerkraut-why-was-scurvy-on-ships-a-thing/847553.md?page=3)