# With trepidation, Benghazi **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535 "2014-05-02T20:30:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/181 "2014-05-05T19:38:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The scandal is the deliberate front loaded lie followed by a witch hunt of the guy making a movie followed by a lack of cooperation in the investigation. Yes, and the “lie” reduces to Susan Rice having used the words “heavily armed extremists” instead of “terrorists.” Why? Because whether or not there was a protest over the fucking video is beside the point and always has been. If the admin had come out and said, > [@](#): > > _There was a protest over the video in Benghazi that was hijacked by al-Qaeda terrorists, against whom we were unprepared, resulting in the avoidable death of our ambassador_ would you still be accusing them of a cover up or somehow trying to change the narrative to benefit them in the election? How exactly would that work? And how exactly does Susan Rice’s script differ in any substantive way from the one I just contemplated? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/182 "2014-05-05T19:44:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Well that explains how he got elected. 52% of the public now realize what they got out of the deal. The next election cycle will find Democrats running from his shadow. And you make my point for me. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/183 "2014-05-05T19:47:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Well that explains how he got elected. 52% of the public now realize what they got out of the deal. The next election cycle will find Democrats running from his shadow. Yeah, peace and prosperity sucks. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/184 "2014-05-05T20:12:21Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Yeah, peace and prosperity sucks. To Republicans, yeah. How are we supposed to make the world know we’re #1 if we don’t go out and beat up on some other country that looked at us cross-eyed once? And the people the Republicans actually care about are having massive prosperity! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/185 "2014-05-05T20:15:07Z")
It is funny how Lara Logan made a report which emphasized everything that the Benghazi Truthers have been saying, and it was found to be (a) poorly sourced, (b) wrong, and © she hasn’t been on-air for a long time because of it. I guess the private sector is more accountable than government. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/186 "2014-05-05T20:24:43Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > Yes, and the “lie” reduces to Susan Rice having used the words “heavily armed extremists” instead of “terrorists.” No, the lie was sending her out in the first place and then doing everything possible to stop the investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/187 "2014-05-05T20:27:03Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Yeah, peace and prosperity sucks. explain that to the unemployed and people who lost their insurance or had their premiums skyrocket. You know, the voters. It’s still “the economy stupid”. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/188 "2014-05-05T20:30:53Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > And you make my point for me. Obama makes the point for himself. His numbers have tanked and [Democrats are distancing themselves from him.](http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/some-democrats-look-for-daylight-from-obama-88675.html) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/189 "2014-05-05T20:32:05Z")
This is really bizarre. But here is a question that I’d like liberals to answer specifically: Forget who is in the White House, if what transpired happened while GWB was in office—all the facts the same as you see them, would you think this statement to be more true or untrue: Susan Rice was sent on the five Sunday Morning talk shows to intentionally craft a narrative that was untrue, but one that would be potentially less damaging to Obama’s reelection bid So, would you think it be: A) Definitely true B) Likely true C) Likely untrue D) Definitely untrue Again, we’re not talking about what you could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, just what your gut would tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/190 "2014-05-05T20:50:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > explain that to the unemployed and people who lost their insurance or had their premiums skyrocket. You know, the voters. > > It’s still “the economy stupid”. But unemployment is way down, and most people who have any change to their health insurance find that it’s a change for the better Sure, you can find people still unemployed, but that’s always true. Even in the best economic times. I don’t have to try to hard to find things I don’t like about President Obama, but I still think he’s the best president we’ve had in a very long time. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/191 "2014-05-05T21:12:17Z")
It’s kind of unbelievable, but in reading the comments here and on other sites, it seems that the Benghazi truthers really don’t understand two very obvious points: 1. It is an undisputed fact that there were several protests around the world that were directly incited by the video, according to the protesters themselves. When Obama gave his speech to the UN, and when Rhodes wrote his memo, they were addressing people who understood this. And yet, both demagogues like Hannity, and idiots like \, insist on taking any reference to the video as assertions about Benghazi. 2. The fact that some people on the ground at Benghazi were certain that the attack was unrelated to a protest does not mean that the people in Washington were certain of it. The people in Washington received conflicting reports, from many people, and did their best to sort them out. If one experienced and credible person is reporting there was a protest before the attack, and another says there wasn’t, it’s more reasonable to assume that the guy who didn’t see it just wasn’t at the right place at the right time, rather than to assume that the guy who says he saw it was mistaken. Anyone who thinks that he can immediately separate the wheat from the chaff when several conflicting reports come in, please stop posting here, and go serve your country by working for the CIA. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/192 "2014-05-05T21:19:33Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This is really bizarre. But here is a question that I’d like liberals to answer specifically: > > Forget who is in the White House, if what transpired happened while GWB was in office—all the facts the same as you see them, would you think this statement to be more true or untrue: > > Susan Rice was sent on the five Sunday Morning talk shows to intentionally craft a narrative that was untrue, but one that would be potentially less damaging to Obama’s reelection bid > > So, would you think it be: > > A) Definitely true > B) Likely true > C) Likely untrue > D) Definitely untrue > > Again, we’re not talking about what you could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, just what your gut would tell you. Definitely untrue. Her comments seem to be a genuine attempt to tell us what they knew at the time. And she stressed, several times, that it was to early to draw conclusions. And I still don’t see how it helps Obama to admit that we couldn’t defend our ambassador against a ragtag group of protesters, rather than against the most deadly terrorist group in modern history. For your information, I gave Bush the benefit of the doubt on WMDs right up until March of 2003, i.e., until Bush directly contradicted the reports of the UN inspection team that had been on the ground in Iraq for over three months. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/193 "2014-05-05T21:26:44Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Anyone who thinks that he can immediately separate the wheat from the chaff when several conflicting reports come in, please stop posting here, and go serve your country by working for the CIA. [As Brit Hume asked of jane Harman this weekend, who fed Susan Rice with the narrative linking the Benghazi attack with the video.](http://www.humanevents.com/2014/05/05/foxs-brit-hume-devastates-democrat-guest-over-benghazi/) The question was asked at about 1:00 in. WARNING: Harman comes off like an imbecile. First trying to pooh-pooh those trying to get to what happened to the narrative concerning 4 dead Americans with Area 51 and then not being able to answer Hume’s question ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/194 "2014-05-05T21:32:24Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Definitely untrue. Her comments seem to be a genuine attempt to tell us what they knew at the time. And she stressed, several times, that it was to early to draw conclusions. > > And I still don’t see how it helps Obama to admit that we couldn’t defend our ambassador against a ragtag group of protesters, rather than against the most deadly terrorist group in modern history. Oh, come on. In the one case it was a spontaneous crowed —completely unexpected, unforeseeable—that formed and did their violence. The other scenario is that this was a planned coordinated attack by an Al Qaeda related group. Neither explanation is good, but the latter went against his trying to brag that “Al Qaeda was on the run” that he was spouting on the campaign trail. > [@TonySinclair](#): > > For your information, I gave Bush the benefit of the doubt on WMDs right up until March of 2003, i.e., until Bush directly contradicted the reports of the UN inspection team that had been on the ground in Iraq for over three months. So, after the WMDs weren’t found, did you give him the benefit of the doubt and conclude he was mistaken? Or that he lied about them being there? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/195 "2014-05-05T21:32:56Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Forget who is in the White House, if what transpired happened while GWB was in office—all the facts the same as you see them, would you think this statement to be more true or untrue: > > Susan Rice was sent on the five Sunday Morning talk shows to intentionally craft a narrative that was untrue, but one that would be potentially less damaging to Obama’s reelection bid > > So, would you think it be: > > A) Definitely true > B) Likely true > C) Likely untrue > D) Definitely untrue So you’re asking, “Assuming GWB did this terrible thing x, which contrary to all evidence I’m alleging Obama did, would you hold it against GWB?” Yeah, sure - but there isn’t agreement (in this thread anyway) on the key question of the whole controversy, namely whether Susan Rice said anything that she knew (or the admin people feeding her talking points knew) to be untrue as of 9/16/12. Can you demonstrate that she did? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/196 "2014-05-05T21:40:47Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > [As Brit Hume asked of jane Harman this weekend, who fed Susan Rice with the narrative linking the Benghazi attack with the video.](http://www.humanevents.com/2014/05/05/foxs-brit-hume-devastates-democrat-guest-over-benghazi/) > > The question was asked at about 1:00 in. > > WARNING: Harman comes off like an imbecile. First trying to pooh-pooh those trying to get to what happened to the narrative concerning 4 dead Americans with Area 51 and then not being able to answer Hume’s question Why would Jane Harman have any information regarding Susan Rice’s prep for anything? She hasn’t been a Rep since 2011. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/197 "2014-05-05T21:48:11Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So, after the WMDs weren’t found, did you give him the benefit of the doubt and conclude he was mistaken? Or that he lied about them being there? Just curious. That’s easy. Bush lied. He and members of his administration said that they knew Iraq had WMDs. They stated it as a fact. They offered what they called evidence to back up their assertion. Many of us knew at the time that the so-called evidence was fabricated or incorrect. Today, everyone knows that it was false and that the so-called evidence was fabricated. We know they lied. Thus far, no one has proven anything like that with regards to the events in Benghazi. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/198 "2014-05-05T21:49:33Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Why would Jane Harman have any information regarding Susan Rice’s prep for anything? She hasn’t been a Rep since 2011. That’s the Fox News way. They pack these panels full of right-wingers ramming home the RNC line seven ways to Sunday, and the token Democrat they pick is some inarticulate and ill-prepared retired congresswoman who doesn’t know what she’s talking about. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/199 "2014-05-05T21:50:27Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > [As Brit Hume asked of jane Harman this weekend, who fed Susan Rice with the narrative linking the Benghazi attack with the video.](http://www.humanevents.com/2014/05/05/foxs-brit-hume-devastates-democrat-guest-over-benghazi/) > > The question was asked at about 1:00 in. > > WARNING: Harman comes off like an imbecile. First trying to pooh-pooh those trying to get to what happened to the narrative concerning 4 dead Americans with Area 51 and then not being able to answer Hume’s question Actually, I don’t really understand why the CIA guy says they told her that they thought there was a protest, but he was surprises when she mentioned the video. What else would the protests be about, especially when protestors in Cairo and Pakistan explicitly said it was about the video? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/200 "2014-05-05T21:55:29Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > That’s easy. Bush lied. Interesting take. Perhaps you should start on thread on the subject. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535.md?page=11)