# With trepidation, Benghazi **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535 "2014-05-02T20:30:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/581 "2014-05-27T00:43:03Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > The Ben Rhodes email gave new life to the investigation. As I’ve explained several times in this thread, there’s nothing substantive in the Rhodes email. It was produced many hours AFTER the CIA-drafted talking points came out, so simple logic leads to the simple conclusion that the Rhodes email was influenced by the CIA talking points, not vice versa. It couldn’t be the other way - the Rhodes email influencing the talking points - because Ben Rhodes doesn’t have a time machine in which to send emails to yesterday to create spin in the past which is actually the future. > [@](#): > > Plus the 112 pages of documents that were released to Judicial Watch as part of a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit. So, what specifically are you referencing in 112 pages of stuff? > [@](#): > > It appears that the Obama White House was trying to convince the voting public that Benghazi was the result of the video and not any Obama White House failure. The CIA produced talking points that blamed the video to some degree or another. If Obama repeats what the CIA is telling him, how is that malfeasance on the part of Obama? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/582 "2014-05-27T02:00:59Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The CIA produced talking points that blamed the video to some degree or another. If Obama repeats what the CIA is telling him, how is that malfeasance on the part of Obama? Who do you think the CIA reports to? Do you really think official reports are kicked out by low level workers without being vetted? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/583 "2014-05-27T02:07:21Z")
Do you really think Obama does the vetting himself ? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/584 "2014-05-27T02:10:13Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > As I’ve explained several times in this thread, there’s nothing substantive in the Rhodes email. It was produced many hours AFTER the CIA-drafted talking points came out, so simple logic leads to the simple conclusion that the Rhodes email was influenced by the CIA talking points, not vice versa. > > It couldn’t be the other way - the Rhodes email influencing the talking points - because Ben Rhodes doesn’t have a time machine in which to send emails to yesterday to create spin in the past which is actually the future. As I have seen many times before, for some reason, timelines are like huge blind spot for many conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/585 "2014-05-27T02:14:55Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Do you really think Obama does the vetting himself ? Sure! Like the spider in the center of the web, President Moriarty has his finger on every strand, sensitive to the least vibration! All Presidents do this; that’s how Bill Clinton knew when to assassinate Vince Foster. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/586 "2014-05-27T02:15:21Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As I have seen many times before, for some reason, timelines are like huge blind spot for many conservatives. I’ve noticed that many conservatives seem to have major problems understanding the concepts of time passing and history. Democrats were racist 60 years ago so Democrats are racist today. Republicans were the party that ended slavery 200 years ago, so Republicans are champions of racial equality today. There was no Republican president between 2000 and 2008, just a null interregnum in DC. It’s like ideology blinds them to reality. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/587 "2014-05-27T02:18:36Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Do you really think Obama does the vetting himself ? The WH absolutely influences the dissemination of information. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/588 "2014-05-27T02:20:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The WH absolutely influences the dissemination of information. Well, it will be interesting to find out if the WH has a TARDIS. I grant you that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/589 "2014-05-27T02:48:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Who do you think the CIA reports to? Do you really think official reports are kicked out by low level workers without being vetted? So you’re saying that the CIA is irrelevant in producing analysis? It’s just, “Hey boss, what do you want our reports to say?” If that’s what you’re saying, surely you must be in favor of disbanding the intelligence community. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/590 "2014-05-27T02:48:26Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Sure! Like the spider in the center of the web, President Moriarty has his finger on every strand, sensitive to the least vibration! > > All Presidents do this; that’s how Bill Clinton knew when to assassinate Vince Foster. I was imagining a scene more _West Wing_y, something like : - Mr. President, your Intelligence briefing for the morning. - Thank you, Charley. Here’s what I want it to say. - And here’s your… wait, what did you just… ? Sir, that’s not how… you can’t… **god** , I miss Bartlett. [QUOTE=Magiver] The WH absolutely influences the dissemination of information. [/QUOTE] But not its generation, which was the point being discussed. Unless I’m confused, and you’re saying what you would have wanted the White House to do is be _more_ \*secretive \*about the intel the CIA’d been collating about the events ? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/591 "2014-05-27T03:12:36Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So you’re saying that the CIA is irrelevant in producing analysis? It’s just, “Hey boss, what do you want our reports to say?” > > If that’s what you’re saying, surely you must be in favor of disbanding the intelligence community. I’m not aware of too many food chains where unpopular opinions make it to the top. It’s true in the private sector and it assuredly exists in politics where popularity is the only qualification for employment. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/592 "2014-05-27T03:14:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m not aware of too many food chains where unpopular opinions make it to the top. It’s true in the private sector and it assuredly exists in politics where popularity is the only qualification for employment. Civil service is political? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/593 "2014-05-27T03:34:05Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Civil service is political? If it involves a politician and they have the power to make your life miserable, absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/594 "2014-05-27T12:10:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If it involves a politician and they have the power to make your life miserable, absolutely. You know that the talking points were prepared at the request of the House Intelligence Committee, right? So the House Intel Committee asks for talking points, the CIA starts working on them, and suddenly somehow the White House intervenes to make the very first version of the talking points, written by the Director of the Office of Counterterrorism Analysis, comply with what the White House wants it to say, about eight hours before the available evidence shows a draft of the talkers went to the White House. How did the CIA analysts know what to write on the first draft? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/595 "2014-05-27T13:31:10Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > How did the CIA analysts know what to write on the first draft? They know everything. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/596 "2014-05-27T14:12:57Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > How did the CIA analysts know what to write on the first draft? Bugged the Resolute desk. Sneaky bastards. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/597 "2014-05-27T14:34:31Z")
B613 Command tortured them into doing it. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/598 "2014-05-27T16:05:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You’re denying the existence of **climatology** now?! No one has heard of the possible fact that four polar bears had been found dead in the Bay of Benghazi or that there is a consensus among climatologists that repeated fire from AK47s and 20mm rounds had increased the area’s CO2 reading to such a level that the bears had drowned in their own tears. The story was widely reported by a one-trick pony with a limp. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/599 "2014-05-27T16:08:30Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > So now you’re quoting Hilary? 😃 I like Hillary’s other quote better. \*Bill can be a real asshole. - Hillary \* ;)😃 ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535/600 "2014-05-27T16:10:33Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Sure! Like the spider in the center of the web, President Moriarty has his finger on every strand, sensitive to the least vibration! > > All Presidents do this; that’s how Bill Clinton knew when to assassinate Vince Foster. I thought the rumor was that Hillary had assassinated Foster? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-trepidation-benghazi/687535.md?page=31)