# Without the streak, does Ripken make it into the HOF? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 31, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876 "2003-08-31T23:58:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/1 "2003-08-31T23:58:37Z")
Let’s say Cal missed a few games a year over his career but ended up with the same numbers. Is he still a shoe in for the Hall of Fame? Haj ---
**Author:** ![Hugh\_Jass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4da419/32.png) [@Hugh\_Jass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hugh_Jass)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/2 "2003-09-01T00:59:22Z")
Unquestionably, yes. Full disclosure: He’s my favorite player ever. Here’s a look at his numbers. Highest fielding percentage in season by a shortstop .996 in 1990 Fewest errors in a season by a shortstop: 3 in 1990 Most consecutive chances without an error by a shortstop, one or more seasons 428 in 1990 Most consecutive chances without an error by a shortstop, one season 428 in 1990 Most years leading league in double plays by shortstop 8 1983-85, '89, '91, '92, '94, '95 Most years leading the league in putouts by a shortstop 6 '84, '85, '88, '89, '91, '92 American League records Tied with Luis Aparicio and Luke Appling for leading shortstops in assists Seven years This shows he was more than just a hitter. Most consecutive errorless games by a shortstop, one season 95 in 1990 This shows he was more than just a hitter. Most assists in a season by a shortstop 583 in 1984 This shows he was more than just a hitter. Most double plays by a shortstop, career 1,565 Again, this shows he was more than just a hitter. AL Rookie of the Year (1982) AL MVP (1983, 1991) This shows greatness over an extended period of time. All-Star Game MVP (1991, 2001) Major league career record for most home runs by a shortstop (345). This illustrates how he fundamentally changed thinking about how shortstop could be played. Major league career record for most years leading a league in double plays by shortstop (8). This shows he was more than just a hitter. Shortstops who have hit 30 or more home runs in a season, with career high at that position: Player HRs Alex Rodriguez 52 Ernie Banks 47 Rico Petrocelli 40 Vern Stephens 39 Rich Aurilia 37 Nomar Garciaparra 35 Cal Ripken 34 Miguel Tejada 31 Tony Batista 31 Note that 6 of the 9 above players are either Cal or came after Cal. He broke the mold of the shortstop as an offensive liability. Without Cal, A. Rod and Nomar are outfielders. 3,000 hits, 400 homers (Players listed in alphabetical order): Player Hits-HRs Hank Aaron 3771-755 Willie Mays 3283-660 Eddie Murray 3255-504 Stan Musial 3630-475 Cal Ripken 3184-431 Dave Winfield 3110-465 Carl Yastrzemski 3419-452 Everyone in the list above is an outfielder or 1st baseman. 3000 hits is generally considered to be an automatic ticket to the HOF. 20 times 10 Players who have hit 20 or more home runs in their first 10 full seasons: Player Seasons Eddie Mathews 14 Billy Williams 13 Reggie Jackson 13 Frank Robinson 12 Fred McGriff 12 Joe DiMaggio 10 Ted Williams 10 Willie Mays 10 Rocky Colavito 10 Cal Ripken 10 Cal is the only shortstop on this list. It’s reasonable to assume that several more will join this list. When they’ve been around long enough. Cal was first. preguntas? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/3 "2003-09-01T01:16:04Z")
So you’re saying that he’ll probably make it but not in the first year… 😃 You present your case very well. It’s a no brainer. Thanks, Haj ---
**Author:** ![Muldoon\_s\_Squishiness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Muldoon\_s\_Squishiness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muldoon_s_Squishiness)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/4 "2003-09-01T01:18:34Z")
He took what was at the time was not thought of as a “power hitting” position and turned it into one, and he changed the idea of what a shortstop could be, bodystyle wise, so yes, no question he goes in the Hall. ---
**Author:** ![Hugh\_Jass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4da419/32.png) [@Hugh\_Jass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hugh_Jass)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/5 "2003-09-01T01:37:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hajario \* > \*\*So you’re saying that he’ll probably make it but not in the first year… 😃 > > You present your case very well. It’s a no brainer. > > Thanks, > Haj \*\* This combined my two passions, statistics and arguing. ---
**Author:** ![Soul\_Brother\_Number\_Two](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/soul_brother_number_two/32/3515_2.png) [@Soul\_Brother\_Number\_Two](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soul_Brother_Number_Two)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/6 "2003-09-01T01:54:21Z")
What the huge one said. ---
**Author:** ![fruitbat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@fruitbat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fruitbat)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/7 "2003-09-01T02:03:26Z")
Cal may well have made it with much worse numbers. He was an icon in the Baltimore area and he was a marketing dream for MLB. Cal’s work ethic and loyalty to baseball and his team were easy to sell. Baseball could not be more grateful that he wasn’t a Pete Rose or Barry Bonds. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/8 "2003-09-01T03:12:00Z")
Well, all the trivia aside, it’s difficult to argue with the fact that Ripken is unquestionably one of the ten greatest shortstops to ever play the game, a fine hitter and defensive SS for a very long time who won two MVP Awards. All that would be just as true if he’d taken a day off here and there. I do NOT believe it is true that Ripken redefined shortstop. Most shortstops today are still small guys, and there were power hitters at shortstop before Cal Ripken. You guys have never heard of Ernie Banks? Robin Yount won the MVP in Ripken’s rookie year; there were Vern Stephens and Rico Petrocelli and some other guys, too. The sudden increase in power hitting shortstops today isn’t because of Ripken, **it’s because the game itself is changing** ; far more home runs are being hit today than were being hit when Cal Ripken broke in, so teams are looking for more power at all positions. You’d have A-Rod and Nomar even if Ripken had never played baseball. Ripken deserves to go to the Hall purely on his accomplishments. He was a great player. ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/9 "2003-09-01T03:52:40Z")
Absolutely!!! Being a HUGE B-Mer fan, I am highly prejudiced on this. But also, I really didn’t like Ripken til towards the end of his career. (And I still have problems with things he did.) But his achievements speak for themselves! 3000 hits, 400 HRs, 3000 games, two MVPS, two All-Star MVPs, Rookie-Of-The-Year. On top of all that he brought baseball back to respectability, after the disastrous 1994 strike, by breaking “the record that couldn’t be broken,” on Sept. 6 1995! AND hit a HR in game #2130, AND hit a HR in game #2131, AND hit a HR in his last game in Atlanta, and Anaheim, and KC, and Yankee Stadium, and his last All-Star Game. 6-hit game in Atlanta in 2000 or 2001. Revolutionized the way teams view shortstops. It just goes on and on! One thing I especially remember about Cal, was the way he could hit the inside fastball. If a pitcher tried to bust him in, Cal had a way of pulling in his hands, still swinging thru the pitch, not pulling it foul, but hitting a HR down the line! 88888888888888888888888888888888 ---
**Author:** ![Dogman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Dogman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogman)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/10 "2003-09-01T05:41:41Z")
He is in the HOF easily without the streak. Comparing to the other great shortstops of his time that are in the HOF, Robin Yount and Ozzie Smith. Cal in his prime is at least as good or better than either Robin or Ozzie. His career length and overall excellence make him a no-brainer HOF even without the streak. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/11 "2003-09-01T06:09:38Z")
Most shortstops are still small guys? You mean guys like Alex Rodriguez, Nomar Garciaparra, Derek Jeter, and Rich Aurilia. Those guys are all big and hit lots of homers. The Rey Ordonezes of the world are dying out. Cesar Izturis of the Dodgers is one of the last ones of the “good field, no hit” type shortstop. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/12 "2003-09-01T06:17:40Z")
Only Honus Wagner is considered a better shortstop than Cal Ripken, combining batting and fielding, and Honus is considered the second best player of all time. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/13 "2003-09-01T06:27:03Z")
> [@](#): > > You mean guys like Alex Rodriguez, Nomar Garciaparra, Derek Jeter, and Rich Aurilia. > Those guys are all big and hit lots of homers. That’s really not true of Jeter or Aurilia. And there ARE still small shortstops like Rey Ordonez, Omar Vizquel, Jose Reyes, etc. who don’t have much power. While the streak was Ripken’s defining achievement, 3000 hits is a ticket to the Hall for anyone who doesn’t bet on baseball. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/14 "2003-09-01T07:16:11Z")
Jeter is 6’3" and usually hits between 15-20 homers a season. Aurilia is only 6’0", but has hit as many as 37 homers in a season. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/15 "2003-09-01T12:20:19Z")
Agree that he unquestionable goes, streak or no streak. ---
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/16 "2003-09-01T17:47:30Z")
Absolutely, he does not DESERVE to go without the streak. The question is, essentially, “With a streak, does John Valentin make the HOF?” and anyone who asked that question would be laughed out of the room. Cal Ripken is perhaps the most overrated athlete of the past 50 years, including Roger Maris. He was JOHN VALENTIN, people. [http://www.baseballreference.com/r/ripkeca01.shtml](http://www.baseballreference.com/r/ripkeca01.shtml) [http://www.baseballreference.com/v/valenjo02.shtml](http://www.baseballreference.com/v/valenjo02.shtml) The two are so comparable that it’s a wonderful example of just how much the streak made Ripken everything that he is. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/17 "2003-09-01T18:12:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Flymaster \* > \*\*Absolutely, he does not DESERVE to go without the streak. The question is, essentially, “With a streak, does John Valentin make the HOF?” and anyone who asked that question would be laughed out of the room. Cal Ripken is perhaps the most overrated athlete of the past 50 years, including Roger Maris. He was JOHN VALENTIN, people. > > [http://www.baseballreference.com/r/ripkeca01.shtml](http://www.baseballreference.com/r/ripkeca01.shtml) > [http://www.baseballreference.com/v/valenjo02.shtml](http://www.baseballreference.com/v/valenjo02.shtml) > > The two are so comparable that it’s a wonderful example of just how much the streak made Ripken everything that he is. \*\* I’ve only been in the US a few years, and while i like baseball a lot i don’t claim to be an expert. But surely i’m being whooshed here, right? ---
**Author:** ![Hugh\_Jass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4da419/32.png) [@Hugh\_Jass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hugh_Jass)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/18 "2003-09-01T18:12:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Flymaster \* > \*\*Absolutely, he does not DESERVE to go without the streak. The question is, essentially, “With a streak, does John Valentin make the HOF?” and anyone who asked that question would be laughed out of the room. Cal Ripken is perhaps the most overrated athlete of the past 50 years, including Roger Maris. He was JOHN VALENTIN, people. > > [http://www.baseballreference.com/r/ripkeca01.shtml](http://www.baseballreference.com/r/ripkeca01.shtml) > [http://www.baseballreference.com/v/valenjo02.shtml](http://www.baseballreference.com/v/valenjo02.shtml) > > The two are so comparable that it’s a wonderful example of just how much the streak made Ripken everything that he is. \*\* I’m looking at the stats and there’s no comparison. Valentin: 1000 hits, Ripken: 3000 Valentin 100+ homers, Ripken 400+. Ripken two MVP awards. Several defensive records. You’re going to have to present some actual evidence to make your argument. ---
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/19 "2003-09-01T18:24:12Z")
Look at their 162 game averages. Valentin had a better career OPS. They hit about the same number of HRs per season (Admittedly, Ripken had a few more on average). They have approximately equal averages. Valentin had more speed on the basepaths. They have approximately equal fielding percentages. They were mid 90s contemporaries. Were it not for Valentin’s horrific, pretty much career ending injury, he would have played for another 5 or 6 quality years after '98. He also started out later, admittedly, but my argument was that they both had almost identical 162 game average stats, and both played the same positions, at more or less the same time. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876/20 "2003-09-01T18:45:28Z")
And John Valentin was such a great shortstop that the Red Sox made him a third baseman! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-the-streak-does-ripken-make-it-into-the-hof/198876.md?page=2)