# Witness haters--are you happy now? :( **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 2, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221 "2013-10-02T23:02:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/181 "2013-10-07T16:10:21Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > Of all the religious solicitors that come by my house, the Jaydubs are my favorite. They generally come by once every couple of months around mid-afternoon, they are dressed very nicely and they are polite. When I say, “No thanks, I’m Catholic” they tell me to have a good day and they move on. They don’t try to “catch me out” for my beliefs like the Baptists kid who was all, “Oh, you’re Catholic? And just how do you think you’re getting to heaven?” (Dude, I know you want me to say by worshipping Mary or some such thing so you can tell me I’m going to hell.) I don’t mind the JWs either. We have a couple of nice ladies who stop by every two weeks or so, chat for about three minutes about the weather and other fripperies, hand us the Watchtower and go away. They’re wasting their time but they’re always polite and don’t overstay their welcome. I’d much rather have them knock on my door than the salesman pushing satellite TV services that was so persistent I came remarkably close to punching him (and I am not easily roused to violence). ---
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/182 "2013-10-07T17:26:52Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > And also [talks kids out of medical treatment](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16763280), you miserable fucking assholes. Well, yeah, nothing else needs to be said other than that. Idolizing blood is pretty gross and bizarre, but pressuring one another to forgo simple life-saving procedures because martyr! ought to be considered emotional abuse and when it leads to death: murder. Kids, man, kids. Give them a chance to live the life that God gave you healthy assholes who haven’t been faced with such illness and suffering. You sanctimonious shitheads. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/183 "2013-10-07T18:03:07Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > The Witnesses have an authorization, sanctioned by the First Amendment to the Constitution and originating in Scripture–specifically Matthew 28:19, Acts 1:8, 20:20, 2 Timothy 3:16, 17. **Note also Acts 5:38, 39 for a very cogent point!** Perhaps i’m interpreting poorly, but each of the examples you give seem to be the promotion of witnessing to very specific groups of people, not universally. Mostly the apostles. For those interested, by the way, in the very cogent point; [QUOTE=Acts 5:38-39] Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.” [/QUOTE] The specific point being made here is given with two examples of people who were not actually anything to with God, and ended up being killed along with all their followers. More to the point the speech manages to downgrade the punishment for witnessing from death to… a flogging, which everyone seems very happy with. Including the apostles here. [QUOTE=Acts 5:40-41] His speech persuaded them. They called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name. [/QUOTE] Of course, an actual flogging is rather harsh in this day and age. But, there you go, Biblical support for being unpleasant to witnessers, who should rejoice at suffering disgrace for the Name. Cogent. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/184 "2013-10-07T19:07:06Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Perhaps i’m interpreting poorly, but each of the examples you give seem to be the promotion of witnessing to very specific groups of people, not universally. Mostly the apostles. > > For those interested, by the way, in the very cogent point; > The specific point being made here is given with two examples of people who were not actually anything to with God, and ended up being killed along with all their followers. More to the point the speech manages to downgrade the punishment for witnessing from death to… a flogging, which everyone seems very happy with. Including the apostles here. Of course, an actual flogging is rather harsh in this day and age. But, there you go, Biblical support for being unpleasant to witnessers, who should rejoice at suffering disgrace for the Name. Cogent. cogent point - they don’t expect any of us heathens to be able to properly understand the bible without the guidance from the faithful and discreet slave thru the Watchtower publications - they also don’t expect us to actually look up the cited verses. - cogent point. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/185 "2013-10-07T19:16:42Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > And also [talks kids out of medical treatment](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16763280), you miserable fucking assholes. JW’s are crazy and stupid. Would be funny if his god decided he committed suicide and sent him the other direction. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/186 "2013-10-07T19:19:55Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Would be funny if his god decided he committed suicide and sent him the other direction. ‘what do you want? I sent 3 people, one with a hellicopter to rescue you - you kept turning them away’ ---
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/187 "2013-10-07T19:21:38Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Would be funny if his god decided he committed suicide and sent him the other direction. Isn’t it, though? I mean, if God gave us the complicated brain which figured out the methodology and the body which so readily accepts this particular miracle of modern medicine (kinda like the banana which was made for eatin’), isn’t the refusal of medical intervention suicide via the martyr route? How do they get around that? Bonus question: what happens to blood lost due to wounds, shaving mishaps, bleeding ulcers, and menstrual blood? Is that also sacred and revered? Is there a shrine to used bandages and other unmentionable items somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/188 "2013-10-07T19:29:12Z")
> [@CLee](#): > > Isn’t it, though? I mean, if God gave us the complicated brain which figured out the methodology and the body which so readily accepts this particular miracle of modern medicine (kinda like the banana which was made for eatin’), isn’t the refusal of medical intervention suicide via the martyr route? How do they get around that? > > Bonus question: what happens to blood lost due to wounds, shaving mishaps, bleeding ulcers, and menstrual blood? Is that also sacred and revered? Is there a shrine to used bandages and other unmentionable items somewhere? (Going by memory) It’s not that blood is sacred but the Bible says you’re not supposed to eat blood(take blood into your body in some translations) hence the no transfusions. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/189 "2013-10-07T19:31:41Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > (Going by memory) It’s not that blood is sacred but the Bible says you’re not supposed to eat blood(take blood into your body in some translations) hence the no transfusions. Right - but that specific prohibition was related to food/alters to other gods - they’ve twisted it around to give them a ‘stance’. Even worse - its now down to what ‘fractions of blood’ are acceptable - and then they use the doublespeak of “up to your conscience” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/190 "2013-10-07T19:33:09Z")
From [Religious Tolerance…](http://www.religioustolerance.org/) [http://www.religioustolerance.org/witness5.htm](http://www.religioustolerance.org/witness5.htm) [http://www.religioustolerance.org/witness13.htm](http://www.religioustolerance.org/witness13.htm) ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/191 "2013-10-07T19:37:19Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > From [Religious Tolerance…](http://www.religioustolerance.org/) > [http://www.religioustolerance.org/witness5.htm](http://www.religioustolerance.org/witness5.htm) > [http://www.religioustolerance.org/witness13.htm](http://www.religioustolerance.org/witness13.htm) Here is a longer article - [Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower's changing stance on blood transfusions](http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blood-transfusions.php) - goes thru the history, etc. (and no, I am not a shill for that site - in reviewing the articles I post a link to - I do find that they line up with my recollections - beyond that, even if you choose to ignore the ‘bias’ they may have - the references are easily researched.) ---
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/192 "2013-10-07T19:48:04Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > (Going by memory) It’s not that blood is sacred but the Bible says you’re not supposed to eat blood(take blood into your body in some translations) hence the no transfusions. I’ve yet to hear of anyone undergoing a transfusion via mouth. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/193 "2013-10-07T19:58:51Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I hate people who reach for guns or violence to solve non-violent problems. > > I hate people who push their religion on me. > > I don’t see that I have to be happy in any way about this story, since no one with my stance is involved. Gun guy should go to jail. JWs should stop going house-to-house out of respect for other people’s lives, not out of fear for their own. This, over nine thousand times. ---
**Author:** ![NeonMadman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58f4c7/32.png) [@NeonMadman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NeonMadman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/194 "2013-10-07T20:28:47Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > This may be the feeling you get based on your interactions with Witnesses - but it’s certainly not a majority opinion in my neck of the woods. Not everything comes direct from Satan. It’s his world, he influences things, but he’s not directly reaching out and attacking people. I believe that anyone saying otherwise doesn’t have the critical thinking ability necessary to parse out the reality that the Witness theology is trying to teach. So they just go overboard with extreme fallacies unsupported by either facts or scripture. It’s not the feeling that I get from my interactions with JWs, it’s my knowledge based on 30 years as one of them. I can support my statements with quotations from Watchtower publications, if you need me to. The leadership creates an atmosphere of paranoia, and over and over again, I’ve seen Witnesses react negatively to anything but the most glowing information about their organization. You don’t need me to tell you this. Google “Jehovah’s Witnesses” and find some web articles about them, then scroll down the comments and see how JWs react if the piece sounds any less positive than the latest \*Watchtower \*(which, by the way, never ever prints negative information about the org - so how would a Witness find out if there was something negative?). > [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > Again, true, but not exclusive to Witnesses. It’s just a close-minded human type of thing. You’ll get more of it with religious people, be it Witnesses or the people who go to the faith-healing mega seminars. Maybe so, but aren’t JWs supposed to be God’s one true organization, thus a cut above everyone else? Why are you trying to justify the way that JWs behave by comparing them with Satan’s churches of “Babylon the Great?” ---
**Author:** ![NeonMadman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58f4c7/32.png) [@NeonMadman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NeonMadman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/195 "2013-10-07T20:36:52Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > I think you’ve got that confused with Catholics, or some other Trinitarian religion. We’re definitely not. Jehovah is God, Jesus is his son. The holy spirit is Jehovah’s “active force” - how we perceive him getting stuff done in the physical world. (him being a spirit and all) That’s how we read the Bible. But Jesus, though being God’s son, is “a god.” But there’s only one true God. But Jesus is a god, too. That’s the concept that I think the earlier poster was referring to, not the Trinity, which actually teaches that there is only one true God. ---
**Author:** ![NeonMadman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58f4c7/32.png) [@NeonMadman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NeonMadman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/196 "2013-10-07T20:47:33Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > Let’s just get one thing straight here. There’s lots of “cults” and “sects of christianity” out there. All have a level of hypocrisy, all have a level of “you were wrong about XYZ”, all are viewed by some as illegitimate and wrong. Ah, but as I pointed out earlier, your organization is supposed to be the shining city on the hill, God’s one true organization, his channel of communication with mankind. And yet, when flaws are pointed out, you retreat right back to comparing your group with other Christians, thus, in effect, admitting that you are no better than any other group out there. That seems inconsistent at best, given the claims of religious superiority that are being made by your leadership. > [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > “But those witnesses, they come to **my house**! And so, because they entered my personal sphere, I’m going to get extra mad. I’m going to do RESEARCH, and find like minded people to get angry with me.” Never mind the genocide in Africa. Never mind the poaching in India that will extinct the tigers. Never mind the drug cartels in Mexico. Those witnesses, man, they’re just awful. Which begs the question of why your group isn’t engaging in actions to help the genocide in Africa, the tiger-poaching in India or the drug cartels in Mexico, if those issues are so important. Instead, you continue to knock on our doors to tell us that our religions are wrong, then complain if we don’t like it. We should be directing our efforts toward all these other undoubtedly worthy causes instead of pointing out that Jehovah’s Witnesses have a very flawed religion, even as you continue to point the finger at every other religion on earth. It seems that JWs are capable of dishing out criticism in great quantity, but unable to take even a small amount of it. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/197 "2013-10-07T21:36:10Z")
> [@CLee](#): > > Little more polite than you, because I didn’t disturb your family or knock on your door in order to disapprove of your behavior. > > How would you receive a Muslim who came to your door singing the praises of Sharia? Would you be moved to encourage your wife to dress in Hijab or burka? Would you grow a beard? Would you consider stoning a daughter who you suspect of having congress outside of wedlock? It’s the same God, after all, but with a longer history and far more subscribers. Would you welcome an evangelical Muslim into your home to sell your family, including young and impressionable and old and lonely family members, his brand of religious practice? > > Your practice takes all the joy out of the (presumably) God created world and introduces a crippling paranoia and shame. Leave us to appreciate our planet, our minds, and our bodies, thanks. Well, it has happened: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1G8nJ2IFjA](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1G8nJ2IFjA) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nuveena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a587f6/32.png) [@Nuveena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nuveena)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/198 "2013-10-07T23:09:05Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Are you OK **dougie**? I ask in all seriousness, because I’ve always known you as a mostly reasonable poster (unless I’m confusing you with someone else) but this OP is right out of left field and bordering on fucking loony. Is it possible you are confusing him with Monty (who is LDS, I believe)? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/199 "2013-10-07T23:19:18Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > You may consider CLee’s post polite; well, you’re entitled to your own opinion. Polite? You still haven’t acknowledged that you poisoned the well of discussion by opening with a needlessly hostile and confrontational OP. If someone had come back with “LOLz they should’ve been shot!!1” then, you would have had a point. But no, you had to outright throw yourself onto the pyre of Internet martyrdom :rolleyes: by accusing everyone of just being fucking thrilled that some nut decided to use his gun to make people get off his property. That’s disingenuous and you know it. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/200 "2013-10-08T02:12:43Z")
> [@Nuveena](#): > > Is it possible you are confusing him with Monty (who is LDS, I believe)? Yes, I, Monty, am LDS. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221.md?page=11)