# Witness haters--are you happy now? :( **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 2, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221 "2013-10-02T23:02:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/481 "2013-11-29T08:11:42Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Am I playing word games? Here’s the entire entry for “solicit” in my Random House Dictionary: > > **so-lic-it** [phonetic spelling follows], v., **-=it-ed, -it-ing.** _–v.t._ **1.** to try to obtain by earnest plea or application: to solicid aid. **2.** to entreat; petition; _to solicit the committee for funds._ **3.** to seek to influence or incite to action, esp[ecially] unlawful or wrong action _[commission of a murder, for example–D. M.]_ **4.** to offer to have sex with in exchange for money.\* --v.i.\* **5.** to make a petition or request for something desired.\*\* 6.\*\* to solicit orders or trade: _No soliciting allowed in this building._ **7.** To offer to have sex fior money. [1400-50; late ME \ **Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/482 "2013-11-30T07:53:20Z") > [@Mangetout](#): > > So if someone has a ‘no soliciting’ sign on their door, are you going to knock and have that same argument with them? Do you honestly expect they’ll be won over by it? :Sigh: I thought I had finished wth this matter. :rolleyes: What I think I’ll have to do is quote from the _Oxford English Dictionary,_ which I regard as the ultimate authority on definitions of English words, and let you people pick\* that\* apart. As for Miller’s comment: if you had bothered to read the first word of my reply, you would see that, by your style of phrasing, it was a “yes,” not a “no.” You sound like my mother. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/483 "2013-11-30T14:39:53Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > … obviously I overplayed my hand, which I see was the wrong thing to do. The saving grace is that you have played **your** hand fully, giving me a fuller understanding of your side of the issue, however much I disagree with it. _Tant pis, tant mieux._ Well, I for one was impressed. It’s not often someone who’s been ranting in the Pit stops and says anything like this. ---
**Author:** ![Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emtar_KronJonDerSohn)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/484 "2013-11-30T17:50:30Z")
I’m not following the back and forth, TLDR, IDGAF, ETC. Feel free to take this as a complete non sequitur. But my doorbell just rang. I figured it was my well meaning Mormon neighbor whom I legitimately like and respect but I wish he’d stop proselytizing at me. However, it was two middle-aged women in long skirts and I knew I was sunk. I made polite greetings and was strategizing how to get away (SWEET BABY CHEESES, THE KITCHEN IS ON FIRE!!!1) when they said “we’re engaging in a worldwide campaign and we would like to share this flyer with you.” And they left. That’s not at all what I was expecting. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/485 "2013-11-30T17:56:04Z")
It’s probably just as well. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/486 "2013-11-30T23:28:55Z")
> [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](#): > > . . . “we’re engaging in a worldwide campaign and we would like to share this flyer with you.” And they left. You could have folded it into a dart, set the wings on fire and launch it at them. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/487 "2013-12-01T01:17:47Z")
What did it say? ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/488 "2013-12-01T07:06:46Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > You could have folded it into a dart, set the wings on fire and launch it at them. Or you could have the courtesy to read it, instead of acting like a child. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/489 "2013-12-01T14:21:10Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Or you could have the courtesy to read it, instead of acting like a child. I give courtesy to people I owe courtesy to. These folks haven’t yet earned it and I’d feel no obligation to read anything they offer. Do you stop and read every brochure offered to you on the street by merchants, fundraisers, and proselytizers? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/490 "2013-12-01T14:30:20Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Or you could have the courtesy to read it, instead of acting like a child. Or you could read the No Soliciting signs and not pretend to not understand what the homeowner’s intent was. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/491 "2013-12-01T15:31:58Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Or you could have the courtesy to read it, instead of acting like a child. God wants us to fold them into darts, set them on fire and launch them at them. He told me. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/492 "2013-12-01T16:18:04Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > God wants us to fold them into darts, set them on fire and launch them at them. He told me. \*Prevarications \*2:11 ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/493 "2013-12-01T23:20:03Z")
To Telemark, runner pat, Kenm, DrFidelius: “If you want to heckle, go to a nightclub.” --Maj. Chas. Winchester, _M_A_S_H\* :rolleyes: From your responses I see that my conclusion that those responding are ‘acting like children’ was right on the mark. ☹ Specific comments: To TelemarK: Yes, I do read them. THEN I toss them. To runner pat: I have stated time and again on this message board that I have almost never seen a No Soliciting sign, much less defied one. To DrFidelius: Prevarications? How appropriate for you. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/494 "2013-12-02T01:28:12Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > From your responses I see that my conclusion that those responding are ‘acting like children’ was right on the mark. ☹ Don’t worry. When their hair starts to burn, I put out the fire with a Super Soaker. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/495 "2013-12-02T01:42:06Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > “If you want to heckle, go to a nightclub.” --Maj. Chas. Winchester, _M_A_S_H\* :rolleyes: I have no reason to show respect to people who don’t show me any respect. They can avoid the abuse by not knocking on my door. They can earn respect by their actions, they can also earn disdain. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/496 "2013-12-02T04:25:44Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > . . . Yes, I do read them. THEN I toss them. . . . I read the headings, which usually give away the game, and toss them before reading further. Obviously, I’m missing out on brochures like… “Jesus Loves You! Join the Church of Jesus! The Bible will Show You The Way! This coupon is good for a free sandwich at Quiznos.” ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/497 "2013-12-02T04:46:53Z")
Now _there’s_ a Messiah I’d follow… Which made me think “Isn’t that kinda what Jesus did with the loaves and fish, and turning water into wine?” And then I realized… he did that at a wedding. That **he was invited to!** It all comes around to the topic. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/498 "2013-12-02T05:02:38Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I read the headings, which usually give away the game, and toss them before reading further. > > Obviously, I’m missing out on brochures like… > > “Jesus Loves You! Join the Church of Jesus! The Bible will Show You The Way! This coupon is good for a free sandwich at Quiznos.” You realize of course that he’s lyeing when he says he ‘reads’ them - the Watchtower is very specific about not letting ‘apostate’ material into your mind - and that includes any/all materials created by anyone other than the Watchtower - and especially material from any other religious org - when was the last time you found a JW at a ‘christian’ bookstore? If dougie\_monty actually reads them - I doubt he does it with anything other than disdain, and since his history on this board and in this thread shows his reading comprehension to be that of about a 3rd grader\*, it’s doubtful he even knows what that means. \*my apologies to any actual third graders reading this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/499 "2013-12-02T05:55:47Z")
> [@simster](#): > > . . . the Watchtower is very specific about not letting ‘apostate’ material into your mind - and that includes any/all materials created by anyone other than the Watchtower - and especially material from any other religious org . . . That’s a sad way to approach a universe of knowledge…or even a universe of opinion! I try to read as widely as I can. Maybe not every religious book out there – there are tons! (The Mahabharata was a little too long for me to get through!) But, damn, at least people should make time to read the “Cliff’s Notes” versions of the world’s major religious books. > [@](#): > > . . . I doubt he does it with anything other than disdain . . . Well, that’s valid too. Heck, a lot of what I’ve read, I have to admit I hold in disdain. I’ve read a handful of C.S. Lewis’ books on Christian theology, and, frankly, I think the poor chap was chock full of garbage. I also girded up my loins (with some of us, it’s all about loins, isn’t it?) and read “Scientific Creationism,” the original by Henry Morris. Made me sick to my stomach, but, by damn, I read the stinking thing. Also Velikovsky. People should take at least a little time in their lives to read stuff they don’t agree with. And, if they do so with disdain…at least one hopes they do so with the honesty of seeking to understand. (So very, very many people who argue against evolution clearly do not comprehend what evolution actually is!) (“Strike…but hear me!”) ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/500 "2013-12-02T06:11:58Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > That’s a sad way to approach a universe of knowledge…or even a universe of opinion! I try to read as widely as I can. Maybe not every religious book out there – there are tons! (The Mahabharata was a little too long for me to get through!) But, damn, at least people should make time to read the “Cliff’s Notes” versions of the world’s major religious books. > > Well, that’s valid too. Heck, a lot of what I’ve read, I have to admit I hold in disdain. I’ve read a handful of C.S. Lewis’ books on Christian theology, and, frankly, I think the poor chap was chock full of garbage. I also girded up my loins (with some of us, it’s all about loins, isn’t it?) and read “Scientific Creationism,” the original by Henry Morris. Made me sick to my stomach, but, by damn, I read the stinking thing. Also Velikovsky. > > People should take at least a little time in their lives to read stuff they don’t agree with. And, if they do so with disdain…at least one hopes they do so with the honesty of seeking to understand. > > (So very, very many people who argue against evolution clearly do not comprehend what evolution actually is!) > > (“Strike…but hear me!”) Agreed on both points - I read (and listen to ) many things I would generally ‘disagree with’ - as if I disagree with it, it usually shows that I am thinking about it - but I am genuinely reading it to gain an understanding of the others viewpoint - and even with a willingness to have mine changed, should it be warranted. _ **“You cannot win an argument you only understand one side of”** _ What I was implying with dougie\_monty’s attitude - and that of other JW (in general) was that that they , if they actually do read it, would not be reading it to gain an understanding at all - an entirely different level of ‘disdain’ if you will. The JW is taught that ‘all’ they need to know is given to them thru the organization - higher education is frowned upon, the internet is demonized, and its a disfellowshipping offense to use external resources - especially if they disagree with the WT teachings and/or if the JW starts questioning the Watchtower. I believe I quoted sources on this earlier in this very thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221.md?page=26)