# Witness haters--are you happy now? :( **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 2, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221 "2013-10-02T23:02:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/881 "2014-07-06T22:26:24Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > à la Dwight Stones? or: “The bear went over the mountain” (not in the scatological sense). 🙂 WTF is your point? -lapsed Catholic, just a general theist. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/882 "2014-07-06T22:32:15Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Don’t put words in my mouth. If I were to seize on any religion, philosophy, etc., with which you are affiliated and start in on you the way you have done to me, you would cry foul for sure. Oh, please. _The official teachings of your church_ insult and demean me. If people here were treating you with half the disdain your religion shows gays, you would break in half. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/883 "2014-07-07T03:30:50Z")
You would find a Scripture reference to respond to 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10? Is that what you mean? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/884 "2014-07-07T03:59:16Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > You would find a Scripture reference to respond to 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10? Is that what you mean? Which version are you using? [All from this page.](https://www.biblegateway.com/) Young’s Literal Translation > [@](#): > > 1 Corinthians 6:9-10Young’s Literal Translation (YLT) > > 9 have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites, > > 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, the reign of God shall inherit. New King James Bible > [@](#): > > 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. Holman Christian Standard Bible > [@](#): > > 9 Don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or anyone practicing homosexuality,[a] 10 no thieves, greedy people, drunkards, verbally abusive people, or swindlers will inherit God’s kingdom. American Standard Version > [@](#): > > 9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men, > > 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Notice how drastically The word Of God changes according to who’s doing the translating?[And there’s this.](http://ourspiritnow.org/2009/04/more-testing-misues/) > [@](#): > > ``` > he word homosexual didn’t exist when the Bible was written. (New Testament about 2000 years ago, and parts of the Old Testament from 1,400 to 400 BCE.) > > It wasn’t until 1869 that Dr. Karoly Benkert, a Hungarian physician created the term by combining the homo, the Greek word for same, with the Latin sexual. > > The word homosexual did not come into use in the United States until the 1880’s. > The Hebrew word kedah means temple prostitute and is sometimes inaccurately translated at sodomite or homosexual. > > In 1 Corinthians, sodomite or homosexual are sometimes used, but they are incorrect translations of the Greek malakos which means something closer to effeminate or the Greek practice of pederasty, which is older men having sex with boys and is not consensual gay sex between peers. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/885 "2014-07-07T04:28:50Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > You would find a Scripture reference to respond to 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10? Is that what you mean? [QUOTE=Jesus @ Mark 12:31] The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these." [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Jesus @ Luke 6:37] "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. [/QUOTE] So - I think whoever wrote the verses to the Corinthians (not to mention the ‘Christians’ today) ought to get off their high horse and talk to the person they are supposedly trying to emulate - ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/886 "2014-07-07T04:38:17Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > You would find a Scripture reference to respond to 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10? Is that what you mean? And you wonder why people are hostile to you? ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/887 "2014-07-07T05:46:18Z")
I refer you, not to a translation, but to a Greek text widely used in contemporary translations (and, I may note, reviled by Jack Chick): The Westcott and Hort Greek text. Consult any other Greek text you like at 1 Corinthians 6:9 and most likely you will find the Greek word _arsenokoîtai_, appearing also in Strong’s _Concordance,_ rendered in the KJV as “abusers of themselves with mankind.” I notice that Paul also included drunkards, and a drunkard wrecked our family. Nobody would seriously expect me not to “judge” someone who did what my drunkard stepfather did, in terms of financial damage, emotional anguish, scars on his neglected (by him) son’s personality, and so on. As for myself, I have had an extremely severe tendency to social isolation, which began years before I ever heard anything about homosexuality. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/888 "2014-07-07T05:59:27Z")
> [@simster](#): > > So - I think whoever wrote the verses to the Corinthians (not to mention the ‘Christians’ today) ought to get off their high horse and talk to the person they are supposedly trying to emulate - I find it interesting that you should adduce Mark 12:31. The word “love” as Jesus used it in this verse is a translation of the Greek word we all know as “agape”; the family I’ve mentioned in connection with some movies–the girl (the absolute knockout!) I went to school with, and her parents and brothers–was closer to me than some of my blood relatives. In February 1986 the father died; I was so shocked to hear that that I did not eat dinner that day. When I got home from the funeral a few days later I cried bitterly. _Agape_ is indeed how I felt about each person in that family, with no thought of same-sex attraction. It was similar years later when his widow died and, about a year and a half later, when the older brother died. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/889 "2014-07-07T06:23:05Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > In February 1986 the father died; I was so shocked to hear that that I did not eat dinner that day. When I got home from the funeral a few days later I cried bitterly. You _remember_ that you didn’t eat dinner on a day back in February 1986? And that you cried after the funeral? I remember crying at/after funerals, but I surely couldn’t tell you whether I’d eaten dinner that day… **TWENTY FOUR YEARS AGO**. Fuck me dead…maybe I’m losing it afterall. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/890 "2014-07-07T07:12:00Z")
Some people are worth it. They got etched in my memory. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/891 "2014-07-07T11:54:26Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > You would find a Scripture reference to respond to 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10? Is that what you mean? Whether or not a given person has a chance to inherit “God’s Kingdom” is between them and God. It is not your business. Their destiny is no reason or excuse to be mean to them while you are sharing this world with them. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/892 "2014-07-07T14:01:12Z")
Oh, I wouldn’t say I am _mean_ to anybody. I have tended to avoid contact with others, whatever their nature, most of my life. I am just a loner. I agree with you, however, that the issue is between each person and God, and outside of a third party’s authority. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/893 "2014-07-07T14:22:44Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Oh, I wouldn’t say I am _mean_ to anybody. Except when you call someone’s mother a bitch? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/894 "2014-07-07T15:26:06Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I find it interesting that you should adduce Mark 12:31. The word “love” as Jesus used it in this verse is a translation of the Greek word we all know as “agape”; the family I’ve mentioned in connection with some movies–the girl (the absolute knockout!) I went to school with, and her parents and brothers–was closer to me than some of my blood relatives. In February 1986 the father died; I was so shocked to hear that that I did not eat dinner that day. When I got home from the funeral a few days later I cried bitterly. _Agape_ is indeed how I felt about each person in that family, with no thought of same-sex attraction. It was similar years later when his widow died and, about a year and a half later, when the older brother died. ☹ So you think somehow I meant that Jesus command to “love your neighbor” -somehow equaled romantic/sexual “love” ? whats the point of this whole charming story? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/895 "2014-07-07T16:36:00Z")
I can’t wait to hear the story about how he felt his pants shrinking when he saw Susie and Bobby behind the shed one day back in 4th grade. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/896 "2014-07-07T18:16:26Z")
> [@simster](#): > > So you think somehow I meant that Jesus command to “love your neighbor” -somehow equaled romantic/sexual “love” ? whats the point of this whole charming story? I very likely misunderstood you, but I will not admit to total guilt: I sense that I am being pressured to admire and respect all other persons, whatever their nature. This would be a bitter pill indeed for me to swallow, since most of my life I have received little or no admiration or respect, and with no idea why. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/897 "2014-07-07T18:19:56Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I can’t wait to hear the story about how he felt his pants shrinking when he saw Susie and Bobby behind the shed one day back in 4th grade. That never happened and your remark is never funny. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/898 "2014-07-07T18:22:36Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I very likely misunderstood you, but I will not admit to total guilt: I sense that I am being pressured to admire and respect all other persons, whatever their nature. This would be a bitter pill indeed for me to swallow, since most of my life I have received little or no admiration or respect, and with no idea why. ☹ Now, I admit that I only know you from how you present yourself on this message board so I cannot tell you exactly why you feel you get no respect in the “real world,” but my impression is that you do nothing to earn admiration. You come across as shrill, petty, mean-spirited, small-minded, quick to anger, fond of disproportionate responses, and demonstrating a total lack of empathy, compassion or humor. Therefore you receive the minimum level of respect we give other persons out of courtesy, but nothing further. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/899 "2014-07-07T18:24:47Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I very likely misunderstood you, but I will not admit to total guilt: I sense that I am being pressured to admire and respect all other persons, whatever their nature. This would be a bitter pill indeed for me to swallow, since most of my life I have received little or no admiration or respect, and with no idea why. ☹ Do you treat people in person the way you treat people on this board? Do you ever go up to perfect strangers and call their mothers dogs? Do you ever demand of perfect strangers if they are happy because a JW got shot at? Do you call them names, then pout when they call you names? Do you attack them then whine you are under attack? Because these are all behaviors you have demonstrated in this thread. If you do any of them in person, of course people don’t like you. And if you don’t do them in person, why do you do them here? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/900 "2014-07-07T18:43:27Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I very likely misunderstood you, but I will not admit to total guilt:\*\* I sense that I am being pressured to admire and respect all other persons, whatever their nature.\*\* This would be a bitter pill indeed for me to swallow, since most of my life I have received little or no admiration or respect, and with no idea why. ☹ \ - you’ll note that the words are from your holy book - spoken by Jesus himself - secondly - he doesn’t say “admire and respect” - he’s really saying treat them as you would want them to treat you - so - If you desire admiration and respect - treat others accordingly. Enjoy the pill and some time for self reflection. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221.md?page=46)