# Witness haters--are you happy now? :( **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 2, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221 "2013-10-02T23:02:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/141 "2013-10-03T23:02:06Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > Some religions, sure. But calling Witnesses immoral is pretty [ignorant](https://www.google.com/search?q=define+ignorant&oq=define+ignorant&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60l2j69i61j0l2.2814j0&sourceid=chrome&espvd=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8) I like how you think linking to a definition is a compelling argument. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/142 "2013-10-03T23:04:33Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Except it’s clearly _not_ one of those things, as blood transfusions have saved countless lives. It is, in fact, the _method_ of recovery. That’s just wacko shit. Try reading the cite. The fact that blood transfusions have saved lives is not in dispute. The fact that it is the only method which may have worked in that situation is open for debate, sure. Witnesses aren’t dying in droves because of refusing blood transfusions. Those who do, are fine with their decision, similar to a 95 year old who declines chemotherapy because in their mind, it’s not worth it. We’d rather not give up our eternal life to get a few more years here when the few more years requires us breaking God’s law. That’s our belief, and it’s why we refuse them. Maybe you’re just pissed off that this country guarantees us the right to make that decision, along with many others, even though the decision is contrary to your personal set of morals? Bummer dude. Guess you’ll have to deal. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/143 "2013-10-03T23:06:01Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I like how you think linking to a definition is a compelling argument. Just making sure you understand that I used the word according to it’s proper definition, and not the occasionally used “urban dictionary” definition where it is an insult unto itself. You’ve never heard someone call another person “ignorant” as though it were a noun along the same lines as “retard” or “jerk”? ---
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/144 "2013-10-03T23:06:29Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > Bummer dude. Guess you’ll have to deal. Dead children are a total bummer, true. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/145 "2013-10-03T23:08:09Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > Blood transfusions are extremely rarely the ONLY option - [bloodless surgery is far superior](http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/jehovahs-witnesses-why-no-blood-transfusions/), and _forces_ a level of care and attention by doctors that all but guarantee speedy recovery. If a blood transfusion is required to save a life, then that life is given up, because there’s lots of things that can’t be recovered from (getting your head cut off, being disemboweled, etc) and this is considered one of those things. Without getting into the mechanics of surgery, could a Jehovah’s Witness assist in performing a blood transfusion on someone who wasn’t a Jehovah’s Witness? ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/146 "2013-10-03T23:11:09Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > Try reading the cite. > Maybe you’re just pissed off that this country guarantees us the right to make that decision, along with many others, even though the decision is contrary to your personal set of morals? Bummer dude. Guess you’ll have to deal. No, I’m pissed that parents could let their children die based on some ill-informed quack belief made up by people who can’t even get the date of Armageddon right. I guess mind-reading’s not a JW power. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/147 "2013-10-03T23:27:59Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > Name another one that receives the level of hatred that JW’s do. It is impossible to take someone seriously when they write such bullshit. You are not a persecuted minority because you adhere to a dumb ass belief system that most people find annoying at best. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/148 "2013-10-03T23:37:56Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > No, I’m pissed that parents could let their children die based on some ill-informed quack belief made up by people who can’t even get the date of Armageddon right. I guess mind-reading’s not a JW power. No kidding. Even in the most Orthodox Judaism, there is no law that can’t be broken to save a life. Nothing so sacred above a life. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/149 "2013-10-03T23:57:42Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > My post, which you are quoting, was not directly in response to yours (which I quoted). It was more about the attitude displayed in yours and in many others like it. > > I’m rather confused about “we’re not talking about the other folks - we’re talking about the JW - and in that post - your bullshit about not setting dates.” > > Help me out there. It’s getting foggy in here. So - you quoted me - but wasn’t responding to me - Classic dodges - you made a bullshit claim - you’ve been called on it. I don’t expect you to do anything but dodge the questions and/or facts - its one of the things your little sect does best. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/150 "2013-10-04T00:00:50Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > Not true, get your facts straight. If abortion is required to save the mother’s life, and it’s before the child is fully developed, [then abortion is pursued but is left up to the woman to decide if her conscience will allow it](http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/abortion-bible-view/). > > Blood transfusions are extremely rarely the ONLY option - [bloodless surgery is far superior](http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/jehovahs-witnesses-why-no-blood-transfusions/), and _forces_ a level of care and attention by doctors that all but guarantee speedy recovery. If a blood transfusion is required to save a life, then that life is given up, because there’s lots of things that can’t be recovered from (getting your head cut off, being disemboweled, etc) and this is considered one of those things. > > Some religions, sure. But calling Witnesses immoral is pretty [ignorant](https://www.google.com/search?q=define+ignorant&oq=define+ignorant&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60l2j69i61j0l2.2814j0&sourceid=chrome&espvd=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8) “allowed to follow thier conciense” is JW doublespeak that will go on to say “since your concience allowed it - you are clearly no longer a christian unless you repent of your sins, you wwill be disfellowshipped” - which in cult land is a fate often times worse than one would think. Your cite for “bloodless surgery being better” is a JW cite - and as such is not reputable from a medical standpoint. In many ways of putting it - the JW are immoral due to the constant lies and half truths they use - the “blood” stuff being a prime example - they are hypocrites of the highest order in these regards. If they simply said “Bible says no blood, therefore no blood” - they would be less so - but since they twist the facts of medical science and use decptive practiced in thier literature (misquotes, quotes out of context , unattributed “sources”, etc) - while at the same time basically forbidding any kind of outside research as that would be 'running ahead of the org" - they get thrown into a whole different world. You need to try harder. ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/151 "2013-10-04T03:25:10Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > Yeah, again, let’s pretend to be oh-so-surprised and shocked and upset that a self-identified Christian is more than a little turned off by gay sex. Let’s continue with THAT charade, how about it? > > If not, then which particular charade should we be working with? Got any in mind? > > :smack: Some people… Well now, this explains so much. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/152 "2013-10-04T03:46:45Z")
Awww. It looks like we’ve gone and hurt \*\*dougie-wougie’s \*\*feelings, since he’s not been back to take his mocking after condemning a number of us. Hey, **dougie**! I got your condemnation right here! Asshole. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/153 "2013-10-04T06:36:11Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > OOO! Fun! Let’s personify your angst and umbrage at JW’s by assigning the negativity to Me, **Uber\_The\_Goober** by use of the specific pronoun “YOU”. Totes legit. > > Anyway, it’s interesting that there’s so much outrage towards the JW’s. So much anger and hatred, unjustified when looking at facts. Physical violence, iniquitous application of ham-fisted laws with the intent of stopping our worship, etc. > > Let’s just get one thing straight here. There’s lots of “cults” and “sects of christianity” out there. All have a level of hypocrisy, all have a level of “you were wrong about XYZ”, all are viewed by some as illegitimate and wrong. > > Name another one that receives the level of hatred that JW’s do. It really makes you wonder. If you tell your jewish (or whatever religion) parents that you’ve decided to become a catholic, or a protestant, or a buddhist, or a hindu, you can imagine the reaction. If you tell your parents that you’re becoming a JW…now that’s another story altogether. > > Seriously. Where does it come from? Are you able to stop for just a moment, in the privacy of your own home, away from anyone judging you for not conforming to the hatred, and ask yourself “Why? Why do I feel this way about them, and not so much about the sham\* faith healers\*? Why not be this angry at the _homeopathic woo doctors_? Why not be this angry at the _catholic priests_?” Then ask yourself if it’s not just a personal prejudice based on something that happened to you, or a story you heard, or a report of something bad. It’s like everyone just resigns themselves to the notion that catholic priests are bad, and no longer worthy of such intense vilification. Homeopathic sugar pill pushing chiropractors are bad, but we’re worn out on that anger. Faith healers may indeed be stealing millions of dollars from disadvantaged people, but ya know, I just can’t be arsed to get angry about it anymore. > > “But those witnesses, they come to **my house**! And so, because they entered my personal sphere, I’m going to get extra mad. I’m going to do RESEARCH, and find like minded people to get angry with me.” Never mind the genocide in Africa. Never mind the poaching in India that will extinct the tigers. Never mind the drug cartels in Mexico. Those witnesses, man, they’re just awful. > > Get some perspective people. For reals. If I believe in crazy nonsense, fine. But until you can show me that the pursuit of happiness of myself and my family is in jeopardy, then you’re the one who’s out of bounds. We’re perfectly happy. And we’d love to show you why we’re happy. You don’t want to hear about it, fine. No gunshots required. > > Try to analyze your visceral reactions to the presence of JW’s, and ask yourself where it’s coming from, and whether your increased blood pressure/stress levels/etc. wouldn’t be better spent on something more worthwhile. Uber…Uber Uber I don’t know how much attention you’ve been paying at the meetings, but the entire world is diametrically opposed to Jehovah’s Witnesses. [Matthew 24:9] It’s not a bad thing though. It’s evidence that 2 Timothy 3:1-5 is accurate, and is happening right now. Instead of enraging Witnesses, behavior like these Dopers display serves to galvanize the faith of those who read their Bible. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/154 "2013-10-04T12:46:57Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Uber…Uber Uber > > I don’t know how much attention you’ve been paying at the meetings, but the entire world is diametrically opposed to Jehovah’s Witnesses. [Matthew 24:9] > > It’s not a bad thing though. It’s evidence that 2 Timothy 3:1-5 is accurate, and is happening right now. > > Instead of enraging Witnesses, behavior like these Dopers display serves to galvanize the faith of those who read their Bible. 😉 😃 I know. [yoda voice] Apropos, that post was. [/yoda voice] I only came back to this thread because you mentioned your involvement in the GD thread. And I’m genuinely interested in the personal motivations of people who display the negativity - because I don’t like to say “Satan did it!” ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/155 "2013-10-04T12:58:39Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > Never officially, because we weren’t sure. As such, we’re currently of the mind that it’s \*soon \*™, but don’t know when. > > Believe in them? Sure we do. We just believe that they’re wrong, because God told us so, in the Bible. > > I think you’ve got that confused with Catholics, or some other Trinitarian religion. We’re definitely not. Jehovah is God, Jesus is his son. The holy spirit is Jehovah’s “active force” - how we perceive him getting stuff done in the physical world. (him being a spirit and all) That’s how we read the Bible. > > Both very true!! 😃 The one thing I find interesting is that the J W’s use a book or at least parts of it don’t like Catholics, but forget it was the Roman and Orthodox bishops that determined what was of God and what was not! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/156 "2013-10-04T13:00:47Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Read John 1:1 is your own New World Translation Bible: In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. > > The Word (Christ Jesus) was “a god.” Every other translation was “the Word was God.” The Psalmist says,‘I said you are gods and sons of the most high’, Jesus backs this up in John 10. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/157 "2013-10-04T13:02:37Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Pure unadulterated class A bullshit - you have been good at using weasal words - but as a sect, you have set plenty of dates either directly or thru the use of all kinds of examples that can be read as nothing but. > > See - [Failed date predictions of Jehovah's Witnesses](http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/1800s.php) - as a history of this and the changing doctorines as you kept finding out that your ‘predictions’ were wrong. > > Even more so - the recent change in the definition for ‘generation’ - as in- up until it became obvious that the end was not going to come in the timeframe of the ‘generation of 1914’ - you had to change it to be ‘any generaation’ or ‘the generation that was alive tat the begninning of the end’ > > You are a member of an apocalyptic cult that REQUIRES the ‘end be any day now’ in order to hold your membership. Nor did it happen in the first century as Jesus is quoted as saying by Matthew and Mark… ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/158 "2013-10-04T15:14:52Z")
I used to date a JW. He was into anal. I couldn’t square that up with his belief system. Didn’t make sense. He wasn’t even supposed to be having sex, nevermind freaky “unnatural” sex with a nonbeliever. He seemed to cherry pick which of the doctrines he’d follow and which he’d ignore. He was also an abusive asshole, which was _probably_ unrelated to him being a JW. Once, he made me promise if he was ever in a horrible car accident or something and he had to receive a blood transfusion, that I wouldn’t give permission and wouldn’t let the docs do it. This was not long before we broke up, so I was already mentally out of the relationship, but scared he’d beat the shit out of me if I didn’t dump him veeerrrry carefully. So I was delighted to promise I’d let him die on an ER gurney if he needed a transfusion. “No sweat. I promise!” I still don’t hate JWs as a group, just that one asshole who treated me badly. I’m an exmormon and I don’t even hate mormons as a group. Now I do despise cults or highly controlling religions. Because I’ve personally witnessed (heh, see what I did there?) the damage cults do to families; they destroy people. It’s not about love. It’s about control. And I find that despicable. But I kind of enjoy the little pamphlets the Jaydubs leave on my door. They’re the creepiest thing since Halloween. And, btw, whoever upthread said she thought she invented “Jaydub,” you may very well have thunk it up on your own, but you are not the first, by a longshot. Mormons have been calling JWs that since their little cult rivalry began. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/159 "2013-10-05T07:11:09Z")
I had been away from the computer on other business and only got back to it tonight. It seems that I have been ambivalent in this thread: Because of the jeering comments made to me as a result of the OP and the second posting I made, I was annoyed, quite so knowing that these are people who often represernt themselves (rather immodestly, I must say) as my intellectual superiors. It isn’t so much that so many of you disagree with me as that your phrasing is in an offensive manner thast puts me in mind of my pottymouth ex-stepfather (now deceased), and that suggests to me how I should receive anything else you say. On the other hand, I am cerftain that other posters are as outraged as I am about this man’s senseless act with a gun; one reason I brought it up was as if saying “isn’t this an outrage?” and fulling expecting those reading the OP to say “Yes, it is,” even if only implicitly. It’s one thing to sing “I’ll Be Glad when You’re Dead, You Rascal, You” while a subject of your adversity is very much alive, but quite another when that person is killed, or seriously injured. I know. Years before I had any religious acquaintance, I experienced the latter first hand, and came away with a seared conscience. I found out a while later, lucky for me the person had long since forgiven me. I want merely to have others see my statements in the intended perspective. And, please don’t call the Witnesses “freaks.” They don’t call you “freaks.” ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/160 "2013-10-05T08:49:06Z")
Are you really getting people into pews when you bang on the door, and sell your shit? Because whenever I get a proselytizer, I want to argue with them and perhaps scream “Eat shit and die.” HOWEVER death should not be a possibility because you think you might be the one to get my cynical information-addicted ass into your lame church. Some religious frootloops deserve every bit of contempt that can be heaped on their heads. Stellar examples include crazy-ass Muslims who kill their women for using cellphones or prevent vaccinations, and spread polio. Or the pathetic loser christians having tantrums and pity parties about vaccinations, food stamps, birth control, and Spongebob. Fuckup control-freak shitheads like those looney Jews who spit on women for praying at the Western Wall, not being modest enough and gods know what else. You notice they never start shit with men; only defenseless children and women, like typical cowards. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221.md?page=9)