# wizard of oz suicide **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [December 24, 2002, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wizard-of-oz-suicide/144642 "2002-12-24T00:59:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jessbuffalo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@Jessbuffalo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jessbuffalo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wizard-of-oz-suicide/144642/1 "2002-12-24T00:59:26Z")
i recently read in one of cecils columns that a munchkin can be seen comitting suicide on camera. i watched it and saw what looked to be a bird of some sort. maybe an emu or osterich. i actually thought it was kind of funny that someone would actually think they would show someone killing themself in a childrens movie:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wizard-of-oz-suicide/144642/2 "2002-12-24T01:02:42Z")
Suicide? No. Here’s Cecil’s take: [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5\_016.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_016.html) And here’s Snope’s [http://www.snopes.com/movies/films/ozsuicid.htm](http://www.snopes.com/movies/films/ozsuicid.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wizard-of-oz-suicide/144642/3 "2002-12-24T01:05:30Z")
Welcome to the boards 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jessbuffalo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@Jessbuffalo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jessbuffalo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wizard-of-oz-suicide/144642/4 "2002-12-24T01:07:31Z")
thanks meatros! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wizard-of-oz-suicide/144642/5 "2002-12-24T01:15:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jessbuffalo \* > \*\*thanks meatros! 😃 \*\* No problem:D ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wizard-of-oz-suicide/144642/6 "2002-12-24T04:48:23Z")
Watching the thing on a real movie screen, as opposed to a TV set (which is not only much smaller but has much poorer resolution) makes it plain: it’s a bird. ---
**Author:** ![Jessbuffalo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@Jessbuffalo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jessbuffalo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wizard-of-oz-suicide/144642/7 "2002-12-24T19:53:49Z")
i did hear, however, that the original scarecrow person comitted suicide on set, and that the original dog toto had to be replaced for some reason…anyone besides me eer hear that???😕 ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wizard-of-oz-suicide/144642/8 "2002-12-25T00:36:38Z")
No and no. To the best of my knowledge, Terry was the only dog cast as Toto. Terry was one of the top canine stars of the period, and certainly would have been the original choice. The story about the Scarecrow might be a very, very distorted version of the following: Shen the movie was originally cast, Buddy Ebsen was the Scarecrow, and Ray Bolger was the Tin Woodman. (This may have something to do with the fact that, in some of the early drafts, the Scarecrow and Dorothy had a romantic relationship; yes, children, Buddy Ebsen was once sexy.) Ray Bolger went to the producers and begged, pleaded, and argued that their roles should be reversed, and they eventually were. But, early in shooting, Buddy Ebsen nearly died from inhaling aluminum dust from the Tin Woodman makeup. He had to be dropped, and was replaced by Jack Haley. No footage of him is in the final film, (while production was shut down, they replaced the director and redesigned several character’s looks, in particular changing Dorothy from a blonde to a brunette), and I do not recall seeing any outtakes of him, though there are some stills and publicity footage; however, it is his voice, not Jack Haley’s, that you hear when everyone is singing together. ---
**Author:** ![Jessbuffalo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@Jessbuffalo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jessbuffalo)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wizard-of-oz-suicide/144642/9 "2002-12-31T06:01:40Z")
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmk thanks for the info ---
**Author:** ![frylok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58956e/32.png) [@frylok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frylok)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wizard-of-oz-suicide/144642/10 "2003-01-01T02:38:17Z")
Stupid question, but on the real video I cant see crap, where is this bird ---
**Author:** ![Jessbuffalo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@Jessbuffalo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jessbuffalo)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wizard-of-oz-suicide/144642/11 "2003-01-01T18:04:18Z")
you can see it right as dorothy and the scarecrow and the tinman go arm in arm down the yellow brick road…just after the part where the trees throw apples at them and the witch comes and blows up into a big clowd of orange smoke. its straight on the screen…you cant miss it!!😉 ---
**Author:** ![frylok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58956e/32.png) [@frylok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frylok)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wizard-of-oz-suicide/144642/12 "2003-01-02T18:10:52Z")
oh thanks I see it now ---
**Author:** ![plankter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ba0ec/32.png) [@plankter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plankter)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wizard-of-oz-suicide/144642/13 "2003-01-04T17:01:04Z")
The bird showed up well enough on my small TV. It’s a Crowned Crane, and someone with a copy of the movie could tell you whether it’s [_Balearica pavonia_](http://www.oaklandzoo.org/atoz/azafcran.html) or [_Balearica requlorum_](http://www.thewildones.org/Animals/gcrwnEng.html). I had the pleasure of dubunking the “suicide” myth on another message board, and used Cecil’s [column](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_016.html) as a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wizard-of-oz-suicide/144642/14 "2003-01-05T06:25:35Z")
I agree with the OP, with my 13" screen,