# WMD found and were ready to fire. Neener Neener Neener!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 7, 2003, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111 "2003-04-07T17:50:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/61 "2003-04-07T21:30:48Z")
Is it just me, or can anyone else feel Tars’ spittle as it comes screaming from his raving mouth and hurtling through the stratosphere? ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/62 "2003-04-07T21:36:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by storyteller0910 \* > On the other hand, to use your example, if I actually AM a child pornographer (disclaimer: I’m not), just an example, not an accusation > [@](#): > > and you did have evidence that you couldn’t reveal publicly (perhaps, let’s say, because your evidence would violate a child’s right to privacy), but you gave the evidence to the police and had them come get me… well, _now_ you’ve done the right thing, right? And if - again _if_, always assuming _if_ - the government does have evidence of WMD but can’t show it, then the scenario is much more akin to my latter example than yours. The problem here is the UN was supposed to be the police we were showing the evidence to, and the evidence we did show was weaker than Popeye pre-spinach. I’m sure it is possible the US had secret evidence, but why didn’t Bush show it to Putin or Hu or Chirac in private? > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, for your continued insistence that those who support this war are depraved - “jacking off to Baghdad explosions” - fuck you, pal. Much easier to pretend those against whom you argue have sick, demented reasons for their stances than to address their _actual_ reasons, eh? As I said, there are moments when I support the war, and believe me, getting to watch the pretty colors and things going boom is emphatically not among the reasons. that was in response to Weirddave getting insulting in the first sentaence of his reply to me. The whole tone of this thread is an insult to the anti-war movement with the neener neener neener comment and it has gone downhill from there on both sides. That’s not an excuse for my behavior, i am not the better persone to rise above the filth at this juncture, since i can attack prowar people here who come off all gung ho as opposed to directly debating Shrubya as to the merrits of invading on little to no evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/63 "2003-04-07T21:41:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > But to allow the government to make war on the basis of secret information is to abandon the claim that “we, the people” are the true sovereign here. … But we, the people of the United States, are sovereign. If our government can’t explain to us just **why** it needs to do what it proposes to do, then it shouldn’t be doing it. I’m not sure I see your point. Since more than two-thirds of Americans support the war, according to [the Pew Research Center](http://people-press.org/commentary/display.php3?AnalysisID=64), one can argue that the will of the people is being carried out by the government. I’m not sure I agree with going to war in the first place. But even if we were in a true democracy, the sovereign will of the people would dictate that we went to war. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/64 "2003-04-07T21:42:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Binarydrone \* > \*\*As a total aside; Can we Lefties agree to stop comparing things to Vietnam and you Righties agree to stop comparing them to World War II? Thanks ever so… \*\* You know, this whole Iraq thing is just like the fighting in Vietnam during WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/65 "2003-04-07T21:44:44Z")
I dunno, **SPOOFE** , I’m having a hard time distinguishing it from the spittle emanating from **Stinkpalm’s** raspberry in the OP. Seems to me if he didn’t wish to engage in a spitting war, he shouldn’t have started one. \ ---
**Author:** ![bluetrust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@bluetrust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluetrust)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/66 "2003-04-07T21:51:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mandelstam \* > \*\ ***bluetrust** , I asked for a cite on the French position on WMDs, which most certainly exists. It exists in hundreds of articles, and transcripts of speeches. I believe the poster to whom I was responding to have misrepresented the actual French position. > > [snip]\*\* Actually, you said, "Please provide cite for the French saying that they had positive proof that no WMDs were in existence. " To which I still reply, “This right here is fucking stupid. How do you prove that something doesn’t exist? Does this make sense to anyone?” I’m not going to play nice just because this is the Internet. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/67 "2003-04-07T22:02:30Z")
What the hell is the point of this stupid fucking OP, until we have independent verification of WMD? ---
**Author:** ![CRorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CRorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CRorex)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/68 "2003-04-07T22:05:27Z")
Anyone else noticing that we’re having a goddamn mother spanking, cricket fucking culture clash here? I’m seeing two groups of people here… 1 group treating this closer to how arguements go in the rest of the SDMB and the other group of people acting like this is a pit thread and kinda being rude to each other and making fun of everyone involved in the news story. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/69 "2003-04-07T22:11:41Z")
> [@](#): > > As I said, there are moments when I support the war, and believe me, getting to watch the pretty colors and things going boom is emphatically not among the reasons. [Medium-range hijack] But apparently at least one net thinks it’s reason enough for some people. Has anyone seen those promos for the war coverage on CNN where a clip pops up of Wolf Blitzer saying “Huge Explosions…”, with the rest cut off? [/Medium-range hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Wabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wabbit)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/70 "2003-04-07T22:45:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > \*\*You know, this whole Iraq thing is just like the fighting in Vietnam during WWII. \*\* Dagnamit **Captain** , you are a fool if you think this is the case! It’s clearly analogous to when we were fighting the French during the Spanish-American War! Saddam is so like Ghengis Khan it’s frightening. I’m surprised you missed this… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/71 "2003-04-08T00:18:32Z")
PLANT! You heard it here first. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/72 "2003-04-08T00:47:04Z")
Shayna… > [@](#): > > I dunno, SPOOFE, I’m having a hard time distinguishing it from the spittle emanating from Stinkpalm’s raspberry in the OP. Good point. Maybe it’s just all of these “April Showers” I keep hearing about. DTC… > [@](#): > > PLANT! RELEVANCE?!? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/73 "2003-04-08T00:49:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Binarydrone \* > \*\ ***Weirddave** , I think that the point here is that there have been a lot of false alarms of late. The folks against the war (and I think that I can safely put you in the other camp) have been repeatedly asked if their position will change once WMD are found. To a varying degree that issue has been explored. > > What _I_ would love to see addressed is this: How many false alarms before the pro-war folks change their minds? Or to get even more subtle here, given that there has been very little evidence of WMD, and that (assuming that this latest find is independently corroborated) it is clear that the Iraqi regime, though being invaded, is not using the WMD that they _do_ have, do any folks in the pro-war camp care to reconsider their position? > > And finally, let me point out that this post is in earnest and, I dare say, polite. I would encourage you to extend the same courtesy to me. \*\* Why, I am always happy to respond politely to polite people. No, my position would not change in support of the war, even if no WMD are ever found. Now, I believe they will be, and the latest reports I’ve heard ( ABC radio news, 8PM, EST ) are still confirming the presence of Mustard agents and positive field tests for Sarin, but even if it turns out to be Franch’s Mustard and Saran Wrap, it won’t change my position. Saddam has used WMD in the past and thus certainly possesses the ability to produce more. He has been engaging in a 12 year game of hide and go fuck yourself with the U.N, regularly tortures and kills thousands of his own civilians and when oil was allowed to be sold for humanitarian reasons he diverted the money to build lavish palaces. Tons of food has been found stockpiled while Iraqi civilians were going hungry. I honestly believe the man was/is truly, monumentaly, evil and needs to be removed with extreme predjudice. I honestly believe that the average “man on the street” in Iraq will be much better off when he is gone. These are some of my reasons for supporting the war, I make no claims, indeed, I have no great love for, the Bush administration. My greatest fear is that they will completely screw up what comes after the war, but I’m willing to wait and see if they do or not without proclaiming a post war screwup a _fait accompli_. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Easily Excitable \* > \*\*PLANT! > You heard it here first. \*\* Oh thank God, I was afraid none of the lunatic fringe was going to bring this one up, it’s why I made the point earlier about the discoveries being confirmed by the embedded reporter with that unit, he’s a neutral observer. Besides, if it was a plant, I seriously doubt the administration would be taking the stance “We haven’t confirmed what it is, don’t go jumping to conclusions”… Or maybe that’s exactly what we’re supposed to think, eh Diogenes? ---
**Author:** ![Mandelstam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Mandelstam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandelstam)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/74 "2003-04-08T01:19:43Z")
\*\*bluetrust \*\*: _"To which I still reply, “This right here is fucking stupid. How do you prove that something doesn’t exist? Does this make sense to anyone?”_ So your point is that the French position is actually the appropriate one? _“I’m not going to play nice just because this is the Internet.”_ I did gather. I was only suggesting you choose a venue where your baseless hostility might not look so out of place. **CR** : sorry I mistook your sarcasm for high serious French-baiting. There is, as you doubtless know, no shortage of that around. ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/75 "2003-04-08T01:21:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mandelstam \* > Is there something about the pro-war mentality that includes either obtuseness, a love of fighting strawmen, or both? \*\* Naturally. If they were capably if thinking clearly and rationally, they wouldn’t be pro-war. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/76 "2003-04-08T01:33:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\*I’m not sure I see your point. Since more than two-thirds of Americans support the war, according to [the Pew Research Center](http://people-press.org/commentary/display.php3?AnalysisID=64), one can argue that the will of the people is being carried out by the government. > > I’m not sure I agree with going to war in the first place. But even if we were in a true democracy, the sovereign will of the people would dictate that we went to war. \*\* So you’re saying that what should determine whether we go to war is the level of popular support for the war, once it’s underway? To implement your theory, all we need is a good time machine. ---
**Author:** ![Essured](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/77 "2003-04-08T01:41:25Z")
Seems to me (and I could quite likely be wrong) that all this shouting about finding WMD’s is much much louder than the subsequent retractions. Even if nothing is ever found, I expect 40+% of Americans to believe that WMD’s were found, simply because the media carried on about it so often. History repeats, only this time it’s Iraq / WMD that are continually being shouted, not Saddam and 9/11. This is more a comment on media reporting, rather than whether or not there are WMD, or other political matters. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/78 "2003-04-08T01:43:43Z")
Kinda locked in with Reuters there aren’t you Tars??? From one of them, I got this: > [@](#): > > CAIRO (Reuters) - Pounding a table with the energy of a man half his age, Hassan Ali Radwan, 89, declares in a blaring voice his intention to go to fight U.S. troops in Iraq. and this > [@](#): > > Thousands more young and middle-aged Egyptians have been flocking to the Lawyers’ Union in Cairo to sign up to fight. Obviously Arab **lawyers** have an entirely different agenda than our local ones. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/79 "2003-04-08T01:54:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*Oh, hot damn. I guess you can put aside your “Liberal Media Lies” slogans when they say something you agree with. \*\* Isn’t he cute, everybody? They’re so adorable when they begin to mimic human behavior! Pretty amazing, really, when they posess little more than a brain stem to regulate their autonomic nerve functions with no real higher brain functions at all. O.K., Skippy, let’s start with this: You claim that I have complained about a “Liberal Media Bias”. Prove it. I want _one_ cite where I have said such a thing. Guess what? You won’t find it because I never said anything of the kind. In point of fact, I happen to think that the media has a bit of a conservative bias > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\* > Here you go, Foxy Loxy: [http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2522907](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2522907) > [http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2477414](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2477414) > [http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2476308](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2476308) > [http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2474524](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2474524) > [http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2492636](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2492636) > [http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2502432](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2502432) > Oh, wait, i guess Reuters isn’t the an authority on the Middle East,_\* No, Reuters is fine, although I find it curious that someone harping on how I’m supposedly exibiting bias post all of their counter “evidence” _from one single news source_. No evidence of bias in that, is there?. :dubious: It’s even more remarkable when you consider that the information presented could easily have been gleaned from any one of a dozen different news sources, something that would have given your claims at least the surface appearence of objectivity. In any event, not one of your links proved what you claimed they prove. Most of them detailed one of two things: A: ) Many Arabs want to go fight the U.S. in Iraq. B: ) Many more Arabs are protesting against the war. The closest you came was [this link](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2476308) (note the correct use of vB code? It’s really not that hard, you can do it!) which features the **opinion** of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak who says that he thinks the war will create “100 bin Ladens”. Gee, a politician in a country that opposes the war, with a population that opposes the war, saying something against the war. That’s shocking! Nowhere have you linked to anything, other than President Mubarak’s opinion, which proves “turned thousands of Arabs into terrorists who want us all dead”. YOU said that the war has created these new terrorists. Linking to stories about how the U.S. is unpopular in the Middle East isn’t even close to proving this, Sparky. We’ve been the “Great Satan” over there for years. I want evidence of new terrorists created in the last 2 weeks, specifically in response to the war. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\* > CNN is the definative one (news source), because **Weirddave** says so. At least until they disagree with **Weirddave** , then they become a liberal commie bias media machine again. \*\* Again, where did I say that? The embedded reporter with that unit happened to be from CNN. I wish it had been am al-Jazira reporter ( Several of them are embedded as well, did you even know that? ) I would have loved to see the verbal tap dancing you’d have engaged in to explain away that. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\* > go back to jacking off to Baghdad explosions on Foxnews. I hope you cum so hard you shoot your eye out. \*\* You’re going to have to try a lot harder to try for an insult that will upset me. Reposting an “insult” that was stupid the first 700 times I saw it used by the anti-war folks isn’t even close. Unlike you, my opinions are carefully thought out and are my own, not given to me by idiots while I drool and nod vacantly. ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111/80 "2003-04-08T02:01:47Z")
What I particularly _love_ about the SDMB is the willingness of posters to withdraw our opinions once they have been proven false. The sheer grace and goodwill as we retract our unfounded accusations or outright lies is breathtaking. Because we all realise, of course, that it is better to apologise and withdraw with dignity than blithely _pretend_ the opposing viewpoint has not been established. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-and-were-ready-to-fire-neener-neener-neener/167111.md?page=5)