# WMD FOUND! Woooohooooooooo! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 17, 2004, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616 "2004-05-17T15:42:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/1 "2004-05-17T15:42:29Z")
[http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/17/iraq.main/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/17/iraq.main/index.html) > [@](#): > > BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) – American-led coalition forces in Iraq found sarin gas in an artillery round that was rigged as an improvised explosive device, U.S. Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said Monday. Probably some old rusty shell smuggled in from Afghanistan. > [@](#): > > The device went off before it could be disabled, Kimmitt said, causing a “small dispersal” of the nerve agent. Two members of an explosives ordnance team were treated for minor exposure, he said. Minor exposure? Nice and convinient that the evidence “went off” as well eh? > [@](#): > > Kimmitt said the artillery round was of an old style that Saddam Hussein’s regime had declared it no longer had after the Persian Gulf War. This is all Bush needs to fool the public into thinking SH had huge stashes of ICBMs, ready to rain down us from the heavens. A single old crusty artillery shell that no longer exists. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/2 "2004-05-17T16:07:23Z")
> [@](#): > > However, a senior coalition source has told the BBC the round does not signal the discovery of weapons of mass destruction or the escalation of insurgent activity. > > He said the round dated back to the Iran-Iraq war and coalition officials were not sure whether the fighters even knew what it contained. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle\_east/3722255.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3722255.stm) It will be interesting to see what is made of this by politicians on both sides of the Atlantic. Justification for war this isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/3 "2004-05-17T16:15:42Z")
Oh no! You mean the stockpiles may have been moved when Saddam knew the shitstorm that was gonna rain down on him? [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html) [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4997808/?GT1=3391](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4997808/?GT1=3391) > **[CNN - Breaking News, Latest News and Videos](https://www.cnn.com/)** > > View the latest news and breaking news today for U.S., world, weather, entertainment, politics and health at CNN.com. I thought we were supposed to be pragmatic here. Let’s see where the truth leads us. Don’t “rush to judgement!” This was the mantra when we all knew the President lied under oath. We have to wait for all evidence to come in and be vetted before a “rush to judgement”. BTW, the prez I refer to is Clinton. Now Move On. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/4 "2004-05-17T16:17:26Z")
What if Saddam gave that shell to Osama Bin Laden and then he had it smuggled into the US and it was used to kill a baby and a puppy? What then? Oh I suppose you’re in favor of terrorists killing babies and puppies. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/5 "2004-05-17T16:20:43Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > A single old crusty artillery shell that no longer exists. And what blew up? Oh, that was the only one? Hell, I guess we’re safe now. _That_ was the one we were looking for! Now I feel better. See, I’m smart enough to know that the enemy would only make enough sarin gas to make\*\* _one_ \*\* missle or bomb. WhooHoooo! We’re safe now! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/6 "2004-05-17T16:22:53Z")
Wow! One whole round of Sarin! That failed to kill a couple guys directly exposed? THIS was worth a war? Those Intel guys sure overstated the threat didn’t they! Sheesh, all this for one lousy, ancient, weak piece of poison. And we’re sure it wasn’t planted there…right? This administration wil make conspiracy theorists of us all. You realize that by now Saddam himself could find God and want to make a peace (like our good Lybian Colonel/General) with the rest of the world and come clean with the types, quantities and location of al disputed goods in Iraq…in front of the world media…with no signs of physical or mental “coercion”…and few could believe it was anything other than a trick. Someone has a credibility issue that is irreparable. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/7 "2004-05-17T16:23:26Z")
All I’m saying, is anyone who _doesn’t_ think Bush will tout this as “evidence” of banned WMDs, is nuts. Of course all perspective will be thrown out the window as well. A single rusty artillery shell is just a stones throw away from stockpiles of anthrax for the gullible American public. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/8 "2004-05-17T16:27:02Z")
Doesn’t count! Saddam never had nerve gas! Oh wait… Doesn’t count! Nerve gas isn’t a WMD! Oh wait… Doesn’t count! It **only** counts if they are actually functioning WMD that could be used to kill Americans. Oh wait… Doesn’t count! It **only** counts if it uses bio-weapons or chemical weapons that Saddam promised that he didn’t have. Oh wait… Never mind. I’ll distract them - you guys get busy moving those goalposts. BUSHLIED!IT’SACONSPIRACY!IT’SACOVERUP!BUSHLIED!BUSHLIED!BUSHLIED!BUSHLIED!BUSHLIED!BUSHLIED!BUSHLIED!BUSHLIED!BUSHLIED!BUSHLIED!BUSHLIED!BUSHLIED!BUSHLIED!BUSHLIED!BUSHLIED!BUSHLIED!BUSHLIED! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/9 "2004-05-17T16:29:51Z")
Well, hot shit! I guess the US should have stopped when they found the first prison camp in WWII. There couldn’t possibly have been more! Oh, wait, I forgot Germany wasn’t a direct threat to American soil. My mistake. Pull out of Iraq, and go NAZI’s! ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/10 "2004-05-17T16:31:30Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > And what blew up? Oh, that was the only one? Hell, I guess we’re safe now. _That_ was the one we were looking for! Now I feel better. See, I’m smart enough to know that the enemy would only make enough sarin gas to make\*\* _one_ \*\* missle or bomb. Not to mention smart enough to read **Yojimbo** ’s post about the origin of this particular shell that could have been manufactured, at latest, 14 and a half years ago. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/11 "2004-05-17T16:33:59Z")
> [@iampunha](#): > > Not to mention smart enough to read **Yojimbo** ’s post about the origin of this particular shell that could have been manufactured, at latest, 14 and a half years ago. You could take a shell from 50 years ago and equip it with a modern warhead today. Are you stalking me? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/12 "2004-05-17T16:34:55Z")
**Shodan** Fair enough. But one nasty old round of Sarin (which could just as easily have been misplaced in some box under someone’s desk) is not the same as the stockpiles of death that Butternutz said he didn’t have! No more so than getting a hummer is not having sex. In either lie the phrase “You know what I mean…” applies and makes neither less of a lie. Now if drums of this kind of goop turn up, then OK. I’ll probably distance myself from an argument along the lines of, “The Kurds smuggled it in from Turkey and planted it there!” In any event, this thread is going to be one helluva spectacle. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/13 "2004-05-17T16:38:10Z")
excellent strawman shodan. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/14 "2004-05-17T16:40:10Z")
There have been several discoveries of older WMD devices dating back to before the first Gulf War. Most of them have been met with a collective “meh”, because it doesn’t tell us anything we didn’t already know, namely that they had the weapons and not all of them got destroyed. But the preemptive, ``` "This is all Bush needs to fool the public into thinking SH had huge stashes of ICBMs, ready to rain down us from the heavens. ``` A single old crusty artillery shell that no longer exists." is kind of tiring, unless you can point to people in the administration who are jumping up and down and saying “Told you so.” The article I read on the subject was quite balanced – pointed out that the shell was old, pointed out that it’s still worrying that these weapons are around to be used, and pointed out that it wasn’t even clear that the people who set up the IED knew that it was a chemical shell. In other word, NBFD. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/15 "2004-05-17T16:47:02Z")
**Finagle** , I’ll go one further. I suspect there are certain people in these threads that could have a chemical bomb hit the very homes they live in, and they would still find a way to blame Bush for putting it there. We have cable modems for message boards, wars aren’t fought and won as fast. I wonder how WWII would have gone if we had instant _media_ coverage in the '40’s. Wie geht’s? ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/16 "2004-05-17T16:54:41Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > You could take a shell from 50 years ago and equip it with a modern warhead today. The fact that a direct impact from a poorly-rigged sarin-containing shell managed to slightly injur two people speaks to how imminent a threat this was. > [@](#): > > Finagle, I’ll go one further. I suspect there are certain people in these threads that could have a chemical bomb hit the very homes they live in, and they would still find a way to blame Bush for putting it there. From whom is the chemical bomb coming? Care to elaborate on what you mean here other than “Some people will think Bush is awful no matter what he does/what happens”? > [@](#): > > Are you stalking me? No. Stalking a fellow poster constitutes a rule violation (I believe this was first called into play during a particularly ugly episode between **Hastur** and **techchick68** ). ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/17 "2004-05-17T16:54:48Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > **Finagle** , I’ll go one further. I suspect there are certain people in these threads that could have a chemical bomb hit the very homes they live in, and they would still find a way to blame Bush for putting it there…? That is my problem with the whole tone of political discourse these days. People are so wrapped up in partisan mentality on both sides of the fence that they refuse to look at reality. Look, I have no problem with some WMD being found. I am firmly anti-war and am positive that the case for war was grossly overstated and that we were misinformed about the cause for war, but am not going to refuse to believe new evidence as it surfaces. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/18 "2004-05-17T16:58:55Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > And what blew up? Oh, that was the only one? Hell, I guess we’re safe now. _That_ was the one we were looking for! Now I feel better. See, I’m smart enough to know that the enemy would only make enough sarin gas to make\*\* _one_ \*\* missle or bomb. > > WhooHoooo! We’re safe now! :rolleyes: Yes, **duffer**. No doubt this shell was part of a group that was mass produced. Please point to the factory in Iraq where the shell was made. Was that factory active this millenium? ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/19 "2004-05-17T17:00:21Z")
Sarin? I didn’t think we gave Saddam any Sarin. Well, this is an interesting find, as it may show that Saddam may have had WMD from sources or programs set up by countries other than the United States. Oh, wait, where did you think he got them from? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616/20 "2004-05-17T17:05:48Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > But the preemptive, > > ``` > "This is all Bush needs to fool the public into thinking SH had huge stashes of ICBMs, ready to rain down us from the heavens. > > ``` > > A single old crusty artillery shell that no longer exists." > > is kind of tiring, unless you can point to people in the administration who are jumping up and down and saying “Told you so.” Well, the admin hasn’t said anything yet, but being as predicatable as they are, we’ll be hearing something soon. In the meantime let’s enjoy these little gems starting to trickle out. [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html) > [@](#): > > “Everybody knew Saddam had chemical weapons, the question was, where did they go. Unfortunately, everybody jumped on the offramp and said ‘well, because we didn’t find them, he didn’t have them,’” said Fox News military analyst Lt. Gen. Tom McInerney. And > [@](#): > > “I doubt if it’s the tip of the iceberg but it does confirm what we’ve known … that he [Saddam Hussein] had weapons of mad destruction that he used on his own people,” Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, told Fox News. What?!?! By the way, supposedly we found some mustard gas in an IED a few weeks ago. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-found-woooohooooooooo/245616.md?page=2)