# WMD in Iraq? Who is kidding whom? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 29, 2004, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072 "2004-08-29T08:05:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2004, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/41 "2004-08-30T03:14:54Z")
> [@Chata](#): > > My neocon friends say Saddam “moved” the WMD to Syra. > > How does one actually move a whole WMD operation? Please explain! Its called outsourcing to foreign countries ? 🙂 Well jokes aside… if the material was moved then the there was a major failure by americans in allowing the material to get across to the next convenient target. I don’t see it as feasible this “wmd across the border” excuse… these aren’t things you just load into trucks and whisk away. Some scientists could have fled to neighbors… but that means no machines or material to start with. ``` Its more an issue of denial... denial about the WMD claims being baloney... ``` ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2004, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/42 "2004-08-30T03:16:43Z")
> [@Chata](#): > > My neocon friends say Saddam “moved” the WMD to Syra. > > How does one actually move a whole WMD operation? Please explain! With the help of al Qaeda, of course. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Necro\_Romancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Necro\_Romancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necro_Romancer)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2004, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/43 "2004-08-30T03:43:42Z")
> [@Chata](#): > > My neocon friends say Saddam “moved” the WMD to Syra. > > How does one actually move a whole WMD operation? Please explain! [Let’s keep this to ourselves.](http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blwheel.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2004, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/44 "2004-08-30T04:04:40Z")
> [@Chata](#): > > My neocon friends say Saddam “moved” the WMD to Syra. > > How does one actually move a whole WMD operation? Please explain! It is bullshit. David Kay searched for WMD by looking for the necessary infrastructure: Transport, Methods of Production, Billing, Personnel. Stuff that cannot be concealed or dispersed, unlike the finished product. There weren’t none. It was that, not the absence of weapons that founded his conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2004, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/45 "2004-08-30T04:09:53Z")
Y’all are kidding right? How did Junior and his henchmen “know” about the WMD? Hmm, let’s see… anyone got the list on GW’s advisors and how many of them worked for daddy back in the 80’s. Saddam tried to kill daddy. That’s all the motive Jrs’ ever needed. OBL and the Bushes have been in a feud for 25 years. Ever since jr. fucked his family out of the millions of $$ that he did back in the late 70’s. After OBL’s big brother was killed on his visit to Texas in '88 OBL went rogue. Saddam had weapons cause daddy said so. That IS ALL there is to it in Jrs. eyes. and yes… **laigle** batshit AND bullshit are excellent descriptions of the whacked out fucker. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2004, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/46 "2004-08-30T06:10:07Z")
> [@Chata](#): > > My neocon friends say Saddam “moved” the WMD to Syra. Nice trick, especially since Syria and Iraq weren’t anything resembling bosom buddies before the war. Not that Neocons deal with annoying subtleties like that. Heck, why move the WMDs at all? Wouldn’t it have been easier for Saddam to _use_ the damn things, and take out 100,000+ American troops on his borders in one go? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2004, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/47 "2004-08-30T06:17:43Z")
Hey, don’t blame Daddy. Daddy and Powell had the brains not to go to Baghdad when there was no plan about what to do when they got there. Shrub wanted to show up Daddy, and stepped in the Bushit. I was pretty sure there were no major WMD installations when the war began (the only important time in this discussion.) Why? First, the UN didn’t find any. I wondered why, if we were so sure we knew where they were, we didn’t tell the inspectors. The inspectors had a good deal of freedom this time, remember. It turns out we did, but there was nothing to find. The second reason was that other countries weren’t buying the story. Some intelligence guy or diplomat said at the time that typically we show the secret evidence to the leaders of countries we want on our side, and he wondered why this wasn’t happening. Now we know - no real evidence. And what really counts - if you invade, you’d better do it on strong evidence, not the absence of a disproof. But fanatics don’t think that way, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2004, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/48 "2004-08-30T06:37:26Z")
**Voyager** “don’t blame daddy” I didn’t blame daddy. Other than he raised the stupid ass. Helped put him in power. Provided the advisers etc. Yeah junior’s “the BOSS” yeah he’s the one out for venegance. not daddy. I’ve never said GHWB was stupid. Far from it in fact. But that didn’t get passed down the tree apparently. I seem to recall a number of comments from junior regarding his vow of revenge on Saddam for trying to kill Poppy. AND don’t forget OBL and junior have some family matters to resolve as well. That good’ol boy mentality is where this stems from. GWB sure needs to get re-elected it seems in order to wrap some of this shit up while a Bush is in office. It doesn’t look like Jeb is really interested but who knows. Maybe after Arnold gets out the Whitehouse, Jeb’ll have come around by then. Now, if only Neil would… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2004, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/49 "2004-08-30T06:43:15Z")
> [@t-keela](#): > > **Voyager** “don’t blame daddy” I didn’t blame daddy. Oops. When you said that Saddam had weapons because Daddy said so, I thought you were. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2004, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/50 "2004-08-30T06:55:59Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Oops. When you said that Saddam had weapons because Daddy said so, I thought you were. My bad. Ooops is right. Maybe I did blame daddy. It was meant that, daddy said that Iraq had WMD then. Therefore ergo etc. junior dud understands that to mean Iraq must STILL have WMD. Sorry, my bungle on the wordplay there. Point being, junior is incapable of making an intelligent decision of his own. He has outdated intelligence from his own feeble brain confounded with a personal vendetta accompanied by some old fuckers trying to relive the glory days. Plus, he’s making Poppy proud. For the first time ever. Sorry about the screw up though. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2004, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/51 "2004-09-02T00:59:05Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > **xtisme** : [looking at these quotes… (and others)](http://www.ceip.org/files/projects/npp/resources/iraqintell/adminquoteshtml.htm) > … > [@](#): > > “One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line.” > > - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998 > [@](#): > > “If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.” > > - President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 > [@](#): > > “We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction.” > > - Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998 > [@](#): > > “He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.” > > - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998 > [@](#): > > “Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.” > > - Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998 > [@](#): > > “Hussein has … chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.” > > - Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999 > [@](#): > > “We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them.” > > - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002 > [@](#): > > “We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.” > > - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 > [@](#): > > “Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.” > > - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 > [@](#): > > “We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.” > > - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002 > [@](#): > > “The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons…” > > - Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002 > [@](#): > > “There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years … We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.” > > - Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002 > [@](#): > > “In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members … It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.” > > - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002 > [@](#): > > “We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction.” > > - Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002 And some kickers: > [@](#): > > “[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.” > Letter to President Clinton. > > - (D) Senators John Kerry, Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, others, Oct. 9, 1998 > [@](#): > > “Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime … He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation … And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction … So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real…” > > - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003 > [@](#): > > “I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force – if necessary – to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.” > > - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/52 "2004-09-02T02:34:10Z")
What’s your point **Oslo**? That Saddam once had WMD, but then destroyed them prior to Bush’s Damn Fool War™? That some Democrats believed Bush’s phony intel and changed their view when presented with the truth? That Saddam fooled everybody, and his WDM program never did live up to the hype? You must mean something like that, 'cuz I sure don’t see any support for the invasion and occupation of Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2004, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/53 "2004-09-02T03:27:01Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > What’s your point **Oslo**? I’d like to see his **source** myself. Some of those right-wing pedophiles like Dennis Hastert just make shit up whenever it suits them. Those “quotes” didn’t all come from [hastert.com](http://hastert.com) did they **Oslo**? ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2004, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/54 "2004-09-02T03:45:44Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > What’s your point **Oslo**? That Saddam once had WMD, but then destroyed them prior to Bush’s Damn Fool War™? That some Democrats believed Bush’s phony intel and changed their view when presented with the truth? That Saddam fooled everybody, and his WDM program never did live up to the hype? You must mean something like that, 'cuz I sure don’t see any support for the invasion and occupation of Iraq. My point is that if Bush/Cheney et. al. are liars or incompetent, then so are Billary, Kennedy, Gore, Kerry et. al. Just pointing out that pretty much everybody (of consequence) on either side of the aisle believed the same thing. No more, no less. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2004, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/55 "2004-09-02T03:58:03Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > I’d like to see his **source** myself. Some of those right-wing pedophiles like Dennis Hastert just make shit up whenever it suits them. Those “quotes” didn’t all come from [hastert.com](http://hastert.com) did they **Oslo**? Nope. Find the sources yourself, lazybones. I suggest [http://www.google.com](http://www.google.com). And I’m not a right-wing pedophile, but by your comments I would guess that you are a left-wing pedophile card-carrying member of NAMBLA with a preference for the mentally feeble and coprophagia. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/56 "2004-09-02T04:03:21Z")
Nope. Not buying it. GW et al were the only ones idiotic to drag this country into an optional invasion on the basis of their fears. There’s nothing wrong with talking about threats you aren’t sure of. It’s another thing to kill thousands of innocent people, and blow hundreds of billions of dollars over paranoid fantasies. We’ve been over this ground many times, but I’d still like to see the source for your quotes. ---
**Author:** ![Abe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f1d935/32.png) [@Abe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2004, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/57 "2004-09-02T05:31:26Z")
> [@Oslo Ostragoth](#): > > My point is that if Bush/Cheney et. al. are liars or incompetent, then so are Billary, Kennedy, Gore, Kerry et. al. > > Just pointing out that pretty much everybody (of consequence) on either side of the aisle believed the same thing. No more, no less. That is true, but it is due to a campaign the objective of which was war with Iraq at any cost and for any reason. There was no sound justification for the war provided _at any time_ in the last four years. The error American polticians in general made was believing in their president and his henchmen, and of being caught up in an environment of artificially inflated fear. Additionally, the repetitive association of Iraq, Al Qaida, and 9/11 helped to make up the minds of the simpletons, average joes, and those generally deficient of critical thinking skills. The issue here is that Bush and company lied to their own government, to fellow politicians, to the American people, and to the entire world. That’s not something that will go away overnight, and (guess what) it’s not something that has in any way mitigated the problem of terrorism – quite the opposite! Don’t forget, the Bush administration “knew” there were WMDs, and they even “knew” their location. Unfortunately there appeared to be few custodians of such iron-clad “intelligence”, which was loudly trumpeted but never provided. The Bushites derailed the UN weapons inspections process and bashed ahead with their own “evidence”, cramming it down everyone’s throat while the gears of war crunched away. Too bad that even at the time it was obvious to those of us willing to invest a bit of time in reasoning and research that the “intelligence” was bogus. Robin Cook, for example, said as much in his resignation speech, back before the Iraq invasion when Blair collaborated with Bush to promote the war. More precisely, Robin Cook – who was privy to the same intelligence Tony Blair was – said that based on the available evidence (as opposed to imaginary evidence) it was extremely unlikely Iraq possessed WMDs. And in the intervening years, it turns out he and several others (including the _Jane’s Defense_ editors, weapons inspectors of various nations and organizations, etc.) were correct. How much simpler does it have to get? We are talking about wholesale deception here, international as well as domestic. By the way, **Oslo Ostragoth** , when someone asks you to provide sources for your cites because he or she may suspect you are using corrupted material, it is good form to provide the sources rather than point them to Google. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2004, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/58 "2004-09-02T12:49:04Z")
**Oslo Ostragoth** : I must have missed the point in time in which Bill Clinton invaded and occupied Iraq without having any followup plan or way of winning the peace… ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2004, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/59 "2004-09-02T13:59:33Z")
**Oslo Ostragoth** > [@](#): > > And I’m not a right-wing pedophile, but by your comments I would guess that you are a left-wing pedophile card-carrying member of NAMBLA with a preference for the mentally feeble and coprophagia. [Moderator Hat ON] Oslo, direct personal insults of other posters are not allowed in Great Debates, and “left-wing pedophile card-carrying member of NAMBLA with a preference for the mentally feeble and coprophagia” most _certainly_ qualifies as a direct insult. Do NOT do this. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072/60 "2004-09-02T14:10:59Z")
> [@Chata](#): > > My neocon friends say Saddam “moved” the WMD to Syra. Last I heard, this is an unrefuted theory with very little (if any) credible evidence in its favor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-in-iraq-who-is-kidding-whom/262072.md?page=4)