# WMD materials moved to Syria? - David Kay thinks so. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 25, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948 "2004-01-25T03:53:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Pepsi\_Classic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f19dbf/32.png) [@Pepsi\_Classic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pepsi_Classic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/1 "2004-01-25T03:53:15Z")
Wher WMD materials moved to Syria? Should we do to war with Syria if they do not fully cooperate? > [@](#): > > In an exclusive interview with The Telegraph, Dr Kay, who last week resigned as head of the Iraq Survey Group, said that he had uncovered evidence that unspecified materials had been moved to Syria shortly before last year’s war to overthrow Saddam. To be fair KAy says that the materials were not large stockpile, but can we afford to let terrorist get their hands on WMD’s or WMD materials? > **[News](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/?xml=%2Fnews%2F2004%2F01%2F25%2Fwirq25.xml&sSheet=%2Fnews%2F2004%2F01%2F25%2Fixnewstop.html)** > > Latest breaking news, including politics, crime and celebrity. Find stories, updates and expert opinion. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/2 "2004-01-25T04:01:04Z")
Sounds like Kay is losing an argument with himself. Because he told [Reuters](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43180-2004Jan23.html?nav=hptop_tb): > [@](#): > > Of the stockpiles alleged by the administration, “I don’t think they existed,” he said. “I don’t think there was a large-scale production program in the '90s.” ---
**Author:** ![Pepsi\_Classic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f19dbf/32.png) [@Pepsi\_Classic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pepsi_Classic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/3 "2004-01-25T04:10:28Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Sounds like Kay is losing an argument with himself. Because he told [Reuters](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43180-2004Jan23.html?nav=hptop_tb): Did you read the link? Because Kay says that it was not large stockpiles that were moved, just material. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/4 "2004-01-25T04:17:23Z")
Kay started saying this stuff last October, as a reason why he couldn’t find anything. Other people have been making similar noises recently. However: > [@](#): > > [21 January 2004 > Powell Says No Hard Evidence Iraqi WMD Hidden in Syria > Secretary of state interviewed for Philadelphia radio program](http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2004&m=January&x=20040121210443adynned0.7071649&t=usinfo/wf-latest.html) > > Secretary of State Colin Powell says there is “no hard evidence” to suggest that Iraqi stocks of weapons of mass destruction were hidden in neighboring Syria before the U.S. and coalition forces attacked last year. > > While being interviewed by a reporter for WPHT radio in Philadelphia January 21, Powell was asked about critics of the administration who contend that the inability to find WMD in Iraq means the United States should not have attacked that country. In his response, Powell said Saddam Hussein’s regime had used WMD in the past and appeared ready to develop WMD in the future. > > “Why we haven’t found stocks, we can’t answer that,” Powell said. “We’re still looking. Is it because they were destroyed, as they knew we were coming or something else happened to them? I don’t know.” > > With regard to the suggestion that Iraq’s WMD may have “ended up in Syria,” Powell said, “that is always a possibility, but I have seen no hard evidence to suggest that is the case, that suddenly there were no weapons found in Iraq because they were all in Syria. I don’t know why the Syrians would do that, frankly: why it would be in their interest. They didn’t have that kind of relationship with Iraq.” ---
**Author:** ![Pepsi\_Classic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f19dbf/32.png) [@Pepsi\_Classic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pepsi_Classic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/5 "2004-01-25T06:16:45Z")
> [@](#): > > With regard to the suggestion that Iraq’s WMD may have “ended up in Syria,” Powell said, “that is always a possibility, but I have seen no hard evidence to suggest that is the case, that suddenly there were no weapons found in Iraq because they were all in Syria. I don’t know why the Syrians would do that, frankly: why it would be in their interest. They didn’t have that kind of relationship with Iraq.” Wasn’t Powell all over the news a while back saying Syria had to stop supporting the former Iraqi regime. And now they don’t have that kind of relationship? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/6 "2004-01-25T06:27:53Z")
By golly, you’ve hit upon it! It was Colin Powell _all along!_. It was _he_ that misled our Beloved Leader, and hoodwinked those trusting patriots Wolfowitz, Cheney and Rummy! Now that you reveal his two-faced nature, it all becomes clear! He’s covering up for the Syrians! We should all be grateful for friend **Pepsi** for exposing this dusky Iago! Mind the purity of your precious bodily fluids. Clean your guns. The Time is soon. ---
**Author:** ![Pepsi\_Classic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f19dbf/32.png) [@Pepsi\_Classic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pepsi_Classic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/7 "2004-01-25T06:38:38Z")
Looks like Syria has strong ties to Iraq: > [@](#): > > The Syrian government has always maintained close ties with both Iraq and Iran, and has been a hotbed of Arab radicalism, allowing terrorist groups such as Hamas and Hizbullah to maintain offices in Damascus. > > The ruling power in the Syrian government is the Baath Party, a secular and socialist-leaning political group headed by Syrian President Bashar Assad, the son of former Syrian leader Hafez al-Assad. Saddam Hussein and the Baath Party led Iraq before its fall to U.S.-led coalition forces. [http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=\ForeignBureaus\archive\200401\FOR20040123b.html](http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=%5CForeignBureaus%5Carchive%5C200401%5CFOR20040123b.html) > [@](#): > > By golly, you’ve hit upon it! It was Colin Powell all along!. It was he that misled our Beloved Leader, and hoodwinked those trusting patriots Wolfowitz, Cheney and Rummy! Now that you reveal his two-faced nature, it all becomes clear! He’s covering up for the Syrians! > > We should all be grateful for friend Pepsi for exposing this dusky Iago! That’s not what I’m saying. I am just confused as to why he changes his views. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/8 "2004-01-25T07:10:00Z")
> [@](#): > > The Syrian government has always maintained close ties with both Iraq and Iran, and has been a hotbed of Arab radicalism, allowing terrorist groups such as Hamas and Hizbullah to maintain offices in Damascus. I have a little trouble with this. First of all, Iraq and Iran hated each other (there was that little war that lasted almost the entire 1980s). And secondly, radical Islamic groups - the kind that were friendly to Iran - HATED Saddam Hussein, who was a secularist, and he didn’t like them either. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/9 "2004-01-25T07:31:50Z")
> [@Pepsi Classic](#): > > That’s not what I’m saying. I am just confused as to why he changes his views. Then prove that he did. All you’ve said is, “Wasn’t Powell the one who was talking about this?” Hell, that’s not even an _assertion_, and it certainly doesn’t stand up to close examination. Care to show us that he actually _did_ change his views before concluding that he’s two-faced (or whatever)? Frankly, this grasping at straws is starting to get tiresome. I was enjoying all the floundering Bush supporters have had to do to excuse the black-hole sized vacuum where the massive stockpiles of WMD’s should have been for a while, but now it’s just getting old and more and more predictable. As hard as it may be to admit you’ve been had, I think it’s time to finally give up the ghost. ---
**Author:** ![Quint\_Essence](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/54ee81/32.png) [@Quint\_Essence](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint_Essence)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/10 "2004-01-25T07:32:30Z")
what amazes me most about this issue is not the possibility that syria may have accepted these weapons or for that matter has such weapons themselves. What is amazing to me is that suddenly people see it as somehow acdeptable for the United States to invade another country for having such weapons when we ourselves not only possess them but have given them to others and encouraged their use. Can you really not see anything wrong with invading a sovereign country that has not directly threatened us? That realistically could not dream of winning any encounter with our forces? Iraq was not a threat even if they had every single gram of the ridiculously exagerrated amounts of such weapons that our fearless blowhard-in-chief told us so much about. Syrai likewise is not a realistic threat. I shudder to think of the number of sheer cowards this government has helped to produce in this country. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/11 "2004-01-25T16:54:44Z")
Ah, but we don’t have to attack Syria. We already have them flanked. I’ve assumed that the WMD situation in the ME has been fluid for quite some time. The only thing that holds together the “Arab Nation” is a desire to use WMDs on Israel. Ergo, I’d expect cooperation. Based on evidence that’s available in news form, such cooperation between rogue states like North Korea and Iraq, North Korea and Syria, North Korea and…, existed before GWB took office and continues today. Syria is the other Baathist stronghold. They have always been Saddam’s biggest boosters. Their recent denials make no sense. “If there were no weapons in Iraq, how could they be here – stupid Americans.” Paraphrasing. Um, trucks. ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/12 "2004-01-25T17:01:44Z")
How many trucks exactly? You’d think the satellite surveillance and special forces troops in the desert would’ve picked them up. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/13 "2004-01-25T17:22:31Z")
Kay’s preliminary report a couple of months ago said that there was no evidence that WMDs had been moved to Syria. Colin Powell and Condie Rice are both saying right now that there is no such evidence. Kay is saying now that Iraq _produced_ no more WMDs after GWI. Kay is not suggesting even now that _weapons_ have been moved to Syria, only “unspecified materials” which could mean practically anything or nothing. I suspect that Kay is under some pressure to qualify and suggest things so as to soften the political blow to the WH that the search has come up empty. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/14 "2004-01-26T03:47:27Z")
So to justify the lack of WMD in Iraq they make up the “Syria got them” lie… when they invade Syria they will say “the took 'em to Lebanon”… and so forth. Come on Pepsi… you still beleive in monsters under your bed and WMDs in Iraq ? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/15 "2004-01-26T19:51:16Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I suspect that Kay is under some pressure to qualify and suggest things so as to soften the political blow to the WH that the search has come up empty. It’d certainly explain his recent bit about how the intelligence agencies “owe the White House an apology” for the missing WMDs. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/16 "2004-01-26T23:12:23Z")
> [@Pepsi Classic](#): > > Did you read the link? Because Kay says that it was not large stockpiles that were moved, just material. It is my recollection and understanding of NPR’s interview with Mr. Kay broadcast on Sunday morning that what Mr. Kay had to say about traffic across the Syrian boarder was that in the weeks leading up to the invasion last April there was indeed a considerable amount of car and truck movement out of Iraq to Syria. Mr. Kay, however, had no idea what was in those cars and trucks. The Syrian government, he said, has not been cooperative in telling Mr. Kay’s people what was in those cars and trucks and the team has not found out what was in them. He certainly did not say that components of chemical/biological/nuclear weapons and/or delivery vehicles or plans and blue prints were in those cars and trucks. How Mr. Kay’s comments can be construed as any sort of a statement that bad stuff was sent into Iraq, even if you shove bamboo slivers under the statement’s fingernails and otherwise torture it, is hard to understand. As far as a personal observation goes, if I were a fat cat Iraqi with any understanding of the determination of the Bush Administration to go on a filibustering expedition in the Iraqi oil fields and the state of the Iraqi armed forces and the extent of Saddam’s self delusion, I would be packing up the kids, grandma, the furniture, as much gold, diamonds and Euros as I could get my hands on and hot footing it for Damascus just as fast as I could in what ever vehicle I could commandeer. I doubt that the trucks going down the Baghdad to Damascus Road were filled with contraband weaponry. I suspect they were full of the family silver service. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/17 "2004-01-27T00:09:37Z")
> [@](#): > > The Syrian government has always maintained close ties with both Iraq and Iran, and has been a hotbed of Arab radicalism, allowing terrorist groups such as Hamas and Hizbullah to maintain offices in Damascus. There had been something of a thaw in the last few years, but (ironic though it may be for a movement ostensibly dedicated to Pan-Arab national unity) the two Ba’athist powers have been quite far from maintaining “close ties”. Saddam Hussein and the late Syrian dictator Hafez al-Assad (who died in 2000) led _rival_ wings of the Ba’ath Party, and were bitter enemies. Syria contributed over 20,000 troops on the _Allied_ side in the first Persian Gulf War. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/18 "2004-01-27T00:51:26Z")
I heard they moved the WMD to France. or maybe it was Massachussetts. ---
**Author:** ![Cronos1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@Cronos1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cronos1)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/19 "2004-01-27T02:49:20Z")
It absolutely makes no sense why the weapons were moved to Syria. If Saddam believed that the US was bluffing about invading Iraq and toppling his regime, then why move the weapons anywhere? He would have left them wherever he was hiding them. If he were certain the US was going to invade, why move the weapons instead of using them? If he weren’t going to use those weapons when his own life was in danger, what was he saving them for or why have them to begin with? If he were certain US was going to invade and topple his regime and he moved the weapons to Syria, then we must believe that he knew his time in power was coming to an end and he chose to hid the weapons outside of his country to just embarrass the US. A bit far-fetched, no? If had WMD, why would he chose to create ambiguities about his WMD program instead of killing as many of the US soldiers as possible? If the weapons were moved after his regime was toppled, shouldn’t we have been able to detect it? We have about 30 of his top 55 guys in custody. Somebody by now would have fessed up to that by now. Also, it also doesn’t make sense why Syria would want to have the weapons. Its possession would most certainly invite a visit from the US Armed Forces. What would be Syria’s upside in that deal? This isn’t as if he was asking his neighbors to hold his mail while he was hiding in a spider hole. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmd-materials-moved-to-syria-david-kay-thinks-so/225948/20 "2004-01-27T02:49:50Z")
> [@Bill H.](#): > > I heard they moved the WMD to France. or maybe it was Massachussetts. **[This Just In…](http://cnjonline.com/engine.pl?station=clovis&template=storyfull.html&id=4010)**