# WMD's destroyed ten years ago, and more bad poll results for Bush on Iraq requests **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 17, 2003, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203 "2003-09-17T19:27:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/61 "2003-09-19T00:56:21Z")
In **Airman Doors** ’s defense, I’ve yet to see anything indicating he’s stupid, and Lord only knows we’ve had other people here with stated beliefs far less likely to be true than his on Halliburton. That being said, when the company benefiting from government policy not only has close links to high-ranking members of the current administration but also was one of the top five contributors to the GOP soft money pool during the last Presidential election, one has to question exactly how objective the government really was in awarding these contracts. If it walks like a duck, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/62 "2003-09-19T02:22:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chefguy \* > \*\*Contrary to your accusation of making the whole thing up (“Try telling the truth…”), I quoted an article. You can take it for what it’s worth. I’ve searched my post for anything that mentioned Bush being a liar, and nope, nothing there. That would make _you_ the liar here. > > Oh yeah, and go fuck yourself. \*\* I see. So, by saying > [@](#): > > Fairly likely, considering Cheney has been on the Haliburton payroll while serving as Veep. Which company got the lucrative contracts in Iraq without competetive bids again? Oh yeah… you weren’t implying that he was being paid off by Halliburton? You say no, and I’m calling you a liar. It’s obvious what you meant. You’re insulting everyone reading this by saying otherwise. If you’re going to insinuate something, and make it that obvious, do yourself a favor and make sure it’s true instead of just a character assassination. **Pantom** , I know what it looks like. But I am unable to accept some overblown conspiracy when I look at face value and it makes sense. It’s not like they gave the Podunk Housepainters and Plasterers Local 69 the job. They went to a proven, experienced company. Truth be told, that’s enough for me, even if you could convince me of some big conspiracy, which would require much more than the assertions I’ve seen here. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/63 "2003-09-19T02:25:31Z")
Not a conspiracy. Just politics as usual. Why do you find it so hard to believe that a politician would do a favor to a connected company? What in heaven’s name do you think politics is all about, anyway? Why would someone who could make a shitload in private life want to be in “public service”? Not to serve the public. That I can guarantee you. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/64 "2003-09-19T02:40:36Z")
The reason I find it so hard to believe, ironically enough, is that it’s so obvious. Of course people were going to think that it was a back-slapping deal. For that reason, I think it was straight up, since what possible political advantage could be gained with the appearance of “conflict of interest”? None at all. And we all know that everything is done for political advantage, since in your own words > [@](#): > > Why would someone who could make a shitload in private life want to be in “public service”? > Not to serve the public. That I can guarantee you. It’s kinda tortured reasoning, and really subtle, but think about it. If Bush/Cheney stand to lose votes over this, why would they do it, unless the company was the right company for the job? Otherwise they’re just blowing off their own foot, and that makes so sense. Anyway, it makes perfect sense to me. I’m not ruling out your beliefs, not at all, but I need proof before I’ll buy into it. Fair enough? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/65 "2003-09-19T03:10:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > If you’re going to insinuate something, and make it that obvious, do yourself a favor and make sure it’s true instead of just a character assassination. It’d be a better, more peaceful world if Cheney and Bush had followed that sage advice with regard to drawing connections between Saddam and 9/11. **Chefguy** is, at worst, guilty of adhering to the accepted rhetorical conventions of the post 9/11 world. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/66 "2003-09-19T03:34:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*It’s not like they gave the Podunk Housepainters and Plasterers Local 69 the job. They went to a proven, experienced company. Truth be told, that’s enough for me, even if you could convince me of some big conspiracy, which would require much more than the assertions I’ve seen here. \*\* The issue is not that they chose Halliburton. It’s _how_ they chose Halliburton, and how they’re working with Halliburton. An analogy: you’re a member of a club, and you pay dues. Bob, the president of the club, is in charge of purchasing a car for club use, paid for by the member’s dues, both past and future. Bob announces that he’s going to let Jim’s Ford dealership sell the club a car, at whatever price and finance terms Jim wants to set. Oh, and it just happens that Jim is Bob’s brother. But Ford is a good brand, so what’s the problem? We the taxpayers are getting ripped off by this contract, plain and simple. Whether Bush et al. negotiated it this way because they’re completely incompetent or because they’re doing favors for their buddies is secondary. Even if you believe they set it up this way with the best of intentions, it doesn’t change the fact that we’re getting ripped off. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/67 "2003-09-19T17:32:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*I see. So, by saying you weren’t implying that he was being paid off by Halliburton? You say no, and I’m calling you a liar. It’s obvious what you meant. You’re insulting everyone reading this by saying otherwise. > > If you’re going to insinuate something, and make it that obvious, do yourself a favor and make sure it’s true instead of just a character assassination. > > **Pantom** , I know what it looks like. But I am unable to accept some overblown conspiracy when I look at face value and it makes sense. > > It’s not like they gave the Podunk Housepainters and Plasterers Local 69 the job. They went to a proven, experienced company. Truth be told, that’s enough for me, even if you could convince me of some big conspiracy, which would require much more than the assertions I’ve seen here. \*\* Jesus, what a stupid motherfucker. Fuck you and everyone who looks like you. There: now I’m only insulting you and anyone who is unfortunate enough to look like you. Liberal-baiting piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/68 "2003-09-19T18:17:49Z")
:rolleyes: Anything else to say, liar? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/69 "2003-09-19T18:53:34Z")
Geez **Chef** pull that rabid wolverine out of your ass. I don’t agree with **Airman** , but I can see his point. Even if I didn’t, it doesn’t call for the vitriol you are throwing at him. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/70 "2003-09-19T20:11:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*The reason I find it so hard to believe, ironically enough, is that it’s so obvious. Of course people were going to think that it was a back-slapping deal. For that reason, I think it was straight up, since what possible political advantage could be gained with the appearance of “conflict of interest”? None at all. \*\* Um…this makes no sense, **Airman**. If you’re working for a government agency which awards government contracts (and I speak as someone with some experience in this area) and there is a possible conflict of interest involved, you do everything possible to keep the award procedure as transparent and as far at arms’ length as possible. So you go through the whole “invitation to tender” process, you keep detailed records of the evaluation process and the criteria by which the various bids were evaluated, and if necessary you allow an external audit. The _last_ thing you do is say “Hey, they’re a good company - what’s the problem?”, as that gives every appearance that the contracts were awarded based on personal contacts.\*\* > [@](#): > > ## And we all know that everything is done for political advantage, since in your own words > > ## Why would someone who could make a shitload in private life want to be in “public service”? Not to serve the public. That I can guarantee you. > > \*\* Actually, the insinuation was that everything is done for _personal_ advantage. If Bush, Cheney, and/or whomever stand to make heaps of money directly or indirectly from Halliburton in the future (including future board positions, contracts with other companies, or even – wait for it – big soft money contributions at the next election), that’s a pretty damn big incentive to hand over the contracts.\*\* > [@](#): > > It’s kinda tortured reasoning, and really subtle, but think about it. If Bush/Cheney stand to lose votes over this, why would they do it, unless the company was the right company for the job? Otherwise they’re just blowing off their own foot, and that makes so sense.\*\* As you can see, even with the blatantly obvious links between the administration and Halliburton, it’s hardly an issue that’s been getting a lot of media coverage (except outside the US, of course, where it doesn’t matter). It’s not an issue likely to cost them many votes. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/71 "2003-09-19T20:30:02Z")
Yeah, sure, there is no company in the entire whole wide world which could even come close to Halliburton in presenting a better bid. No need to even ask. Why waste time. Let’s go with the ones we know and who also happen to be (just by coincidence) our old friends and great contributors of cash to the GOP. BTW, did I tell you I fell off the turnip wagon just yesterday? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/72 "2003-09-19T20:37:29Z")
add to that that Cheany is **actively** avoiding releasing details of the development of the administrations energy policy… ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/73 "2003-09-19T21:33:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gyrate \* > \*\*To be fair, Halliburton did make a [very compelling submission](http://www.towardfreedom.com/jun03/booty.htm), as did Fluor, Bechtel and Parsons. \*\* Bechtel has been awarded some reconstruction contracts in Iraq. Dunno how big compared to Halliburton. Fluor is a French company, no? Like hell we would hand them some multi-billion contract… ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/74 "2003-09-19T21:48:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > **The reason I find it so hard to believe, ironically enough, is that it’s so obvious. Of course people were going to think that it was a back-slapping deal. For that reason, I think it was straight up, since what possible political advantage could be gained with the appearance of “conflict of interest”? None at all. > … > It’s kinda tortured reasoning, and really subtle, but think about it. If Bush/Cheney stand to lose votes over this, why would they do it, unless the company was the right company for the job? Otherwise they’re just blowing off their own foot, and that makes so sense.** Ok, so let me get this straight. You believe there was NOT a conspiracy surrounding the selection of Haliburton for the rebuilding of some of Iraq’s infrastructure? Or that you prefer your conspiracy to other conspiracies? Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/75 "2003-09-19T23:32:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*Bechtel has been awarded some reconstruction contracts in Iraq. Dunno how big compared to Halliburton. Fluor is a French company, no? Like hell we would hand them some multi-billion contract… \*\* I dunno what, if any, French connection there is; their Head Office is in California (as per their [website](http://www.fluor.com/about/companydesc.asp)). And yes, they’ve got a few contracts relating to Iraq reconstruction (according to [this website](http://www.export.gov/iraq/contracts/)), although not nearly as many as Bechtel. However, according to [this website](http://www.worldtrans.org/spir/forum/messages/290.html): > [@](#): > > Fluor Corp, which donated $275,000 (£175,000) to the Republicans and $3500 (£2200) personally to George Bush, has ties to a number of intelligence and defence procurement officials. These include Kenneth J Oscar, former acting assistant secretary of the army and Bobby R Inman a retired admiral, former NSA director and CIA deputy director. But I’m sure there’s no connection between Fluor’s donations and military procurement connections and their being awarded Air Force and Army Corps of Engineers contracts, so there’s no need for concern. Of course, I don’t mean to single out the GOP for such scrutiny; the Democrats also got a healthy chunk of change from most of the same companies. Which may (or may not) be one of the reasons this is not an issue they’re giving a lot of attention to; neither party really wants too much scrutiny into who’s funding them and what they’re getting in return. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/76 "2003-09-19T23:48:28Z")
On the subject of goverment contracts I want to see someone defend the award of 45 million to Worldcom. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/77 "2003-09-20T01:47:12Z")
The other issues, Airman, are whether lack of interest by Haliburton’s part is a factor in Bush’s initial unwillingness to go into Liberia, and Haliburton’s deals a factor in not invading Saudi Arabia. Maybe not, but… ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/78 "2003-09-20T01:55:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > Fluor is a French company, no? Like hell we would hand them some multi-billion contract… That sums up the diplomatic policies of the present aministration. Great way to make friends and influence people. . . except in the opposite direction that you would want. Insult the French, shut them out of any business. . . and then beg them to send cash and soldiers to Iraq. Is that laughable or what? Do you really expect them to play ball with those rules in place? You have to be an idiot if you believe that. The same people who accuse the French of holding a grudge are the ones rabidly holding a grudge against them. ---
**Author:** ![BeatenDam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d2c977/32.png) [@BeatenDam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeatenDam)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/79 "2003-09-20T03:21:28Z")
You people miss the big picture. This war on Iraq was just to show what will happen if you take a 911 cheap shot at america. sAddam had seen how bad he could hurt us with a 911 type attack and we had to make sure that he wasn’t going to try one of those cheap shots himself. Saddam became a wipping boy who deserved it for whatever reason. If we have another major terrorist attack we will just make up another lame excuse and invade another middle east county. This is called national defense. It works like this… You leave us alone and we won’t kill the rest of you. This is a time tested method that has worked great for thousands of years. And it is going to work now. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203/80 "2003-09-20T03:55:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*Do you really expect them to play ball with those rules in place? You have to be an idiot if you believe that. The same people who accuse the French of holding a grudge are the ones rabidly holding a grudge against them. \*\* No, what you do is sneeringly say that they’d better cough up and quick or it’ll just prove that they were hypocrites for opposing the war in the first place. It doesn’t have to make sense, it just has to be abrasive and defiant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-destroyed-ten-years-ago-and-more-bad-poll-results-for-bush-on-iraq-requests/202203.md?page=5)