# WMD's in Iraq - How many were found and what was the condition of the WMD's? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 27, 2004, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377 "2004-10-27T03:22:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/21 "2004-10-27T20:02:28Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > Before the war, we heard endless stories on the news about how Saddam would keep UN inspectors at bay while the back door to this building was locked up and a few trucks had some time to get away, or how they were denied entrance to that building until Saddam thought the time was right, etc. It looked like Saddam was trying to hide something. > > So was this all just some big cat-and-mouse game that Saddam enjoyed playing with the UN? > > Please note: this is not a rhetorical question designed to stir Debate. I genuinely want to know what was going on. Former inspector Scott Ritter believes that one of the reasons Saddam was so intent on stopping the inspections was the fact that the US intelligence agencies kept trying to use the UN inspection teams as a means to further the US’s intelligence and foreign policy goals (inserting spies and conducting espionage intended not to determine the presence/absence of WMDs but to overthrow Hussein). > [@](#): > > “The U.N. inspection teams were not spies,” Ritter said during Monday’s online chat. “We carried out the difficult task given to us by the Security Council.” What he called “Iraqi obstruction” compelled the teams to “undertake certain methodologies that are normally associated with espionage . . . but as long as these methodologies were under the total control of the United Nations weapons inspections teams, this was a justifiable course of action,” he said. > > \*\*“The problem,” he said, “came when the United States government sought to take over control of some of these sensitive techniques for the purpose of pursuing U.S. policy objectives.” Its main objective was “overthrowing Saddam Hussein, and not of furthering the disarmament work of the weapons inspectors.” \*\* > > “It was this perversion of the weapons inspection process that has opened the weapons inspectors to accusations of espionage,” he said. The United States “killed any hopes of getting inspectors back into Iraq, and has done grievous harm to the potential of the United Nations . . . to engage in meaningful disarmament and peace and security work in the future.” > > Ritter said that when he resigned, “the United States government – the Clinton administration – was well on the path of corrupting the inspection process. My speaking out was designed to reverse this process. Unfortunately, that did not happen; and the United States, through Operation Desert Fox, effectively killed the inspection process,” Ritter said. [http://www.cnn.com/books/news/9903/30/ritter/](http://www.cnn.com/books/news/9903/30/ritter/) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/22 "2004-10-27T20:28:38Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > I could have sworn that one of those “expired” chemical shells was actually used against some coalition forces. I kinda remember hearing they actually hit their target, but the guys weren’t injured! Even if the chemical payload was inert, you’d think getting hir by the shell would cause some damage… That’s the May 2004 roadside bomb you’re thinking about. It wasn’t successfully deployed-- it was detonated in a controlled explosion. According to the Defense Department, it appears likely that the people who assembled it believed the CW shell to be a conventional explosive shell after recovering it from a dump, test range, or some such. (The shell was so corroded that any markings identifying it as CW ordnance were obliterated.) Two bomb disposal folks received slight injury – mild respiratory symptoms from the traces of gas they were exposed to when the device was detonated. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/23 "2004-10-27T22:29:27Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > So was this all just some big cat-and-mouse game that Saddam enjoyed playing with the UN? [Sort of](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/01/30/wwmd30.xml), but it was to keep enemies at bay and retain power, not play with the UN. > [@](#): > > (David Kay) said he believed that Saddam was pursuing a pattern of “creative ambiguity” - getting rid of weapons that might trigger invasion while letting his enemies believe he might still have that deterrent. > > “Saddam wanted to enjoy the benefits of having chemical and biological weapons without having to pay the costs,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/24 "2004-10-27T22:41:03Z")
It’s also worth pointing out that, right up to the start of the 2003 Iraq war, Saddam _wasn’t_ “playing games” with the UN inspectors – the inspection teams would wake up one morning, pick a random target to go to, drive there, knock on the door, then got access to the place and looked around. The UN even got tips from the US on where they believed WMDs were hidden, but found nothing when they actually checked out the sites. The claims that Saddam was giving UN inspectors the runaround appear to be so much exaggeration from the Bush Administration, who were using the claims as an excuse to sell the war. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/25 "2004-10-27T23:15:02Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > It’s also worth pointing out that, right up to the start of the 2003 Iraq war, Saddam _wasn’t_ “playing games” with the UN inspectors … Well, yes he was for some ten years- he first played games with them, then he kicked them out. Finally, yes, with US forces massing on his borders and a clear threat from the USA- Saddam did let the UN Inspectors in, and they were pretty much free- excpet for the “palaces” if I remember right. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/26 "2004-10-27T23:24:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > … then he kicked them out… …after being throughly awkward with them, once he’d discovered the presence of CIA agents. (Not a conspiracy theory - it’s been admitted by the UN, the US and the inspectors.) ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/27 "2004-10-27T23:50:13Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > That’s the May 2004 roadside bomb you’re thinking about. It wasn’t successfully deployed-- it was detonated in a controlled explosion. According to the Defense Department, it appears likely that the people who assembled it believed the CW shell to be a conventional explosive shell after recovering it from a dump, test range, or some such. (The shell was so corroded that any markings identifying it as CW ordnance were obliterated.) Two bomb disposal folks received slight injury – mild respiratory symptoms from the traces of gas they were exposed to when the device was detonated. That’s probably it, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/28 "2004-10-28T00:11:03Z")
But back to the aircraft, were they flown to Iran for safekeeping, to return to Iraq after the war? Or were the pilots fleeing for their lives. Did Iran say they’d be returned and reneged on the deal? I can’t see any Iraqi’s flying into Iran without getting shot down 😕 ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/29 "2004-10-28T00:47:03Z")
Iran was officially a neutral nation during Desert Storm. In international law, troops, vessels, and equipment of a belligerent nation that attempt to take refuge in a neutral country must be interned by the neutral for the duration of the hostilities. The neutral is expected to return them when hostilities are concluded. Compliance with these responsibilities and expectations is not always 100% [The Battle of the River Platte](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_River_Plate) is a famous example where these rules came into play during WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/30 "2004-10-28T01:27:35Z")
> [@paperbackwriter](#): > > The Battle of the River Platte is a famous example where these rules came into play during WWII. That’s the Battle of the River **Plate**. There were no significant engagements between german and british naval forces in Nebraska or Colorado during WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/31 "2004-10-28T01:34:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, yes he was for some ten years- he first played games with them, then he kicked them out. The UNSCOM inspectors weren’t kicked out in 1998, they left of their own accord. Saddam was denouncing them and making life difficult, but that was at least partly because members of UNSCOM had been passing information to US intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/32 "2004-10-28T01:36:15Z")
Forgot the [cite](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1853860.stm) (approx half way down). ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/33 "2004-10-28T07:22:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Saddam did let the UN Inspectors in, and they were pretty much free- excpet for the “palaces” if I remember right. I’ll need a cite for this; IIRC, the inspectors paid several surprise visits to some of Saddam’s palaces, and aside from some minor bureaucratic paper-checks at the gates, had unrestricted access to them. I distinctively remember following the inspectors’ progress in the news, then hearing Bush mangle the day’s events for his own ends… ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/34 "2004-10-28T20:21:06Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > That’s the Battle of the River **Plate**. There were no significant engagements between german and british naval forces in Nebraska or Colorado during WWII. 😛 Let one little extra character slip in… (PS: You should have capitalized “German” and “British”. Gaudere’s Law strikes again) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/35 "2004-10-28T20:34:23Z")
> [@paperbackwriter](#): > > (PS: You should have capitalized “German” and “British”. Gaudere’s Law strikes again) 😉 It was a poorly constructed sentence too. :o ---
**Author:** ![hyjyljyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/0ea827/32.png) [@hyjyljyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hyjyljyj)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/36 "2004-10-30T14:11:19Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > There were no “smoking gun” finds, but there is plenty of evidence that Saddam had programs to develop WMD’s. They found huge stockpiles of pesticides, which could be quickly converted into nerve gas. (Many pesticides _are_ nerve agents, and are very closely related to nerve gases.) Some science labs had starter cultures of Anthrax, and there are lots of Iraqi scientists who say that Saddam really, really wanted nukes. Thanks Diceman for the additional clarification about the suspiciously copious amounts of pesticide chemicals found. It does seem odd, the enormous quantities discovered, at numerous sites, and that they were found in carefully concealed bunkers, right alongside munitions equipment suitable for dispersal and handy chemical weapon suits for protection. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/37 "2004-10-30T20:39:02Z")
I think Saddam said that the pesticides were for agricultural use. You can probably count the number of people who believed this on your fingers, since (A) we’re talking about f\*\*\*ing _Iraq_, not Kansas, and (B) why would the military be storing chemicals intended for civilian use? Iraq’s not a communist state. Whatever farmers exist there can get their own pesicides. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/38 "2004-10-30T23:04:24Z")
> [@paperbackwriter](#): > > Iran was officially a neutral nation during Desert Storm. In international law, troops, vessels, and equipment of a belligerent nation that attempt to take refuge in a neutral country must be interned by the neutral for the duration of the hostilities. The neutral is expected to return them when hostilities are concluded. Compliance with these responsibilities and expectations is not always 100% > > [The Battle of the River Platte](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_River_Plate) is a famous example where these rules came into play during WWII. By the way there are plans to refloat the Graf Spee, a team has already rescued the telemeter tower and a piece of artiullery; but I haven´t heard any news about that lately. As a related note the remains of the HMS Agammenon that sunk in Punta del Este are being studied and a cannon has been rescued from the wreck making it the only existing cannon that is known to have fired in the battle of Trafalgar. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/39 "2004-10-31T07:24:58Z")
It’s worth noting that “Saddam had programs to develop WMDs” isn’t much more than “wishful thinking.” Saddam certainly didn’t have any equipment or materials or knowledge which was banned by any of the UN resolutions. Is it justified to arrest someone for merely _thinking_ about committing a robbery? ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377/40 "2004-10-31T08:43:19Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Is it justified to arrest someone for merely _thinking_ about committing a robbery? no but one can arrest them for planning it. I beleive it is called conspiracy. Of course whether one would invade a country… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-in-iraq-how-many-were-found-and-what-was-the-condition-of-the-wmds/271377.md?page=3)