# WMD's May Yet Be Found **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613 "2004-03-26T19:29:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rodbots](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f14d63/32.png) [@rodbots](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rodbots)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/1 "2004-03-26T19:29:28Z")
I do not know whether Saddam Hussein ever had any weapons of mass destruction. Frankly I doubt it. But that does not mean they won’t be “found.” A President who is dishonest enough to lie about their existence is also dishonest enough to fabricate their existence. The most powerful man in the world is powerful enough to plant evidence. The only reason he hasn’t done it yet is that the timing is not right. I want to go on the record as saying that the WMD’s will be “found” between 1 and 6 weeks before the general election. This will boost the President’s ratings enough that he will easily defeat Kerry. While the fact that no WMD’s have been found so far is a pretty strong argument against Bush at this time, I advise Democrats not to depend too heavily on it. It is thin ice, and Bush holds a sledgehammer. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/2 "2004-03-26T20:57:36Z")
Well if he does plant WMD he better plant something substantial… a few cans of mustard gas won’t turn around an election. He better make sure the WMD aren’t made in the USA either 🙂 Bush is better off by presenting Osama a week before the election I think… WMD for some reason have been left aside by US voters and their short memory span. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/3 "2004-03-26T21:09:33Z")
Firstly, if WMDs “suddenly” appeared in Iraq right now, every intelligence agency on the planet would be studying them to see if they were plants. If they were, the blowback on the Administration would be a fatal blow. Heck, just trying to plant a sizable cache of WMDs might be enough to set some foreign intel agencies a-singin’. Secondly, I believe some forms of WMDs are tagged with molecular markers indicating their origins, and these markers are registered with various international scientific committees. If the Administration claims they found 100 tons of anthrax that Iraq got from Syria, and tests show they actually came from Maryland, that’d be another fatal blowback. Just ignoring the WMD issue and trumping up the “war on terror” is a far safer alternative. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/4 "2004-03-26T21:11:29Z")
Well, he _has_ expanded the search to [furniture.](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow/584420.cms) ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/5 "2004-03-26T21:15:17Z")
WMD not found = Bush is bad WMD are found = Bush is bad ObL not catured = Bush is bad ObL is captured = Bush is bad Terrorist attack = Bush is bad No Terrorist attack = Bush is bad hey, I see a pattern. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/6 "2004-03-26T21:23:07Z")
> [@furt](#): > > WMD not found = Bush is bad > WMD are found = Bush is bad > > ObL not catured = Bush is bad > ObL is captured = Bush is bad > > Terrorist attack = Bush is bad > No Terrorist attack = Bush is bad > hey, I see a pattern. That, I am afraid, is a rather simplistic view of things. While it is true that at this late stage of the game there is really not much that Bush could do to redeem himself, the implication of your post as I read it is that there never was a time when he could have done so. Now, I will admit that this is probably true for some folks but the fact is that not all people that have problems with Bush come to that conclusion irrationally (not that wild speculation as evidenced in the OP helps me make my case, mind you). ---
**Author:** ![Volta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ce73a5/32.png) [@Volta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Volta)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/7 "2004-03-26T21:32:41Z")
> [@furt](#): > > WMD not found = Bush is bad > WMD are found = Bush is bad > > ObL not catured = Bush is bad > ObL is captured = Bush is bad > > Terrorist attack = Bush is bad > No Terrorist attack = Bush is bad > hey, I see a pattern. Nah, the Iraq war just seems to be an issue all Bush-haters can rally around, a point of unity for people who dislike him for varying reasons. As much as I wanted to see Sadaam go down, there are valid reasons for opposing the war. It’s just too bad the intelligent voices often get drowned out by the half-wits. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/8 "2004-03-26T21:33:13Z")
Naw. As I’ve said all along, even Bush isn’t dumb enough or cavalier enough to fake WMDs in Iraq, and especially so now. He’s already being called on his weaseling and lying and deception: something as big as faking WMDs would turn him into Nixon II. Forget that – it’d make him the first US president to go from the White House to the Big House. He’ll keep twisting the truth and putting forth egregious propaganda, no doubt about it. But his team will be a lot subtler about it than that. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/9 "2004-03-26T22:49:12Z")
> [@](#): > > I do not know whether Saddam Hussein ever had any weapons of mass destruction. Frankly I doubt it. For some reason I thought this wasn’t in dispute. Maybe it was all those bodies of Kurds and Iranians. He had them. He used them. The Bush administration knew this. The Clinton administration knew this. So did the UN, the Brits, the French, the Germans and everyone else with an intelligence service. Clinton made speeches about Saddams nuke program. The question is where did it go? Did Clinton get lucky and it was all destroyed in the bombings? Was it destroyed by Saddam and he just didn’t want to tell anyone? Is it buried in Syria? I don’t know. But I do know if some does turn up it will be legit. A scam like that would be impossible to pull of and the costs of failure far outway the benefits. I doubt the presence ofWMDatthis point will change too many votes. If we had marched in there and found stockpiles of weapons how many people would have changed their minds about GW? Not many who post here I bet. Besides its pretty far from Johnson’s Atoll to Iraq. The black helicopters don’t have that kind of range. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/10 "2004-03-26T22:51:04Z")
> [@](#): > > I doubt the presence ofWMDatthis point will change too many votes. Damn sticking spacebar! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/11 "2004-03-26T22:56:15Z")
> [@](#): > > If the Administration claims they found 100 tons of anthrax that Iraq got from Syria, and tests show they actually came from Maryland, that’d be another fatal blowback. The problem with this is that the tests won’t be done until after the election. If the labs are really backed up, it might have to wait until after inauguration day. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/12 "2004-03-26T23:08:48Z")
> [@Volta](#): > > , there are valid reasons for opposing the war. It’s just too bad the intelligent voices often get drowned out by the half-wits. I agree. I was addressing the half-wits. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/13 "2004-03-26T23:41:38Z")
> [@](#): > > That, I am afraid, is a rather simplistic view of things. I’m sorry, Binary, but it looks pretty accurate. From the beginning - even before he was elected President - the Bush-haters had the “He’s Gonna…” machine going full-force. They made so many Doomsday predictions about what he’s gonna do that they were guaranteed to hit SOMETHING… and as soon as they did they focused on that at the exclusion of all else. I mean, I’m STILL waiting for Bush to repeal Roe v. Wade. Wasn’t that supposed to be THE hip thing for a neocon to rail against back in '00? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/14 "2004-03-26T23:43:23Z")
What I’m saying is that politics itself has become terribly simplified, foregoing extensive analysis in favor of five-second sound bites (hell, at least in the '80s, people were still capable of listening to _ten_-second sound bites). That’s why the Moderates are so maligned; that’s why both parties are rabidly approaching a “Part of the solution or part of the problem” mindset; that’s why most hardcore party-liners shit their pants at the idea of a third party “taking their votes”. Politics has been dumbed down to the point where it’s just sad. ---
**Author:** ![Jon\_the\_Geek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@Jon\_the\_Geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jon_the_Geek)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/15 "2004-03-26T23:50:26Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Besides its pretty far from Johnson’s Atoll to Iraq. The black helicopters don’t have that kind of range. Duh! The black helicopters were reverse-engineered from alien technology, which travelled thousands of light years before crashing in Roswell. I think they can make it to Baghdad (unless, of course, they crash into a weather balloon or something). Anyhoo, on the WMD topic… I’m not a Bush supporter by any means (why does it seem like everyone forgot his “There ought to be limits to freedom [of speech]” quote?), but I still can’t say with 100% certainty that there aren’t any WMDs to be found. I think it’s unlikely that any will be found, but I think Bushco _believed_ Iraq had WMD, just as Clinton did. It’s not impossible that they’re still burried out in the desert somewhere. Unlikely, sure… but I’m sick of people stating the “no WMD” thing as if they really know. ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Swordsman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7bcc69/32.png) [@Invisible\_Swordsman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Swordsman)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/16 "2004-03-26T23:58:52Z")
I’ve looked, but cannot find the debate in the OP. Is it: a) Will President Bush plant WMD? b) Will President Bush win if WMD are found? c) I’m a Democrat and I hate this administration no matter what happens. Which is it? -IS ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2004, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/17 "2004-03-27T00:58:58Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > For some reason I thought this wasn’t in dispute. Maybe it was all those bodies of Kurds and Iranians. He had them. He used them. No one is disputing this. We still have the receipts; they’re in among all the other paperwork from the Reagan Administration. Donald Rumsfeld might have copies, though. > [@Loach](#): > > The question is where did it go? Did Clinton get lucky and it was all destroyed in the bombings? Was it destroyed by Saddam and he just didn’t want to tell anyone? Is it buried in Syria? Did he use all of them against the Kurds and Iranians? Did his remaining stockpiles expired due to inadequate/improper storage? (WMDs are not like knives and bullets – they will go bad after a few years) > [@Loach](#): > > I don’t know. Boy, _there’s_ a straight line if I ever saw one. 😉 > [@Loach](#): > > If we had marched in there and found stockpiles of weapons how many people would have changed their minds about GW? Not many who post here I bet. Depends. If we had found two pints in a cupboard, I wouldn’t have changed a thing. If we had found the much-touted 500,000 tons of anthrax, and a few of those imaginary mobile chemical labs, _then_ I’d have been convinced. But we didn’t, so the perception of Bush being a lying weasel remains. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2004, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/18 "2004-03-27T01:53:27Z")
I am highly doubtful that Bush will plant WMDs, simply because it does not appear to matter whether they are there or not. Enough Americans appear to be satisfied with whatever retroactive justification Bush puts forth. Either they are **Simon X** ’s “pre-fooled,” who are apparently irreversibly fooled, or like **Sam Stone** , will simply defend whatever Bush does, regardless. Some will argue that Bush never said “imminent threat,” as if this somehow makes it okay. Some die-hard conservatives are in the position of defending a multibillion dollar humanitarian effort, and seem to be pleased as pigs in shit about it. In some polls, Bush still leads Kerry. I am dumbstruck, but again, I don’t think it sufficiently matters. He won’t plant anything in Iraq. He’s got enough plants here. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2004, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/19 "2004-03-27T02:03:53Z")
> [@rodbots](#): > > I do not know whether Saddam Hussein ever had any weapons of mass destruction. Frankly I doubt it. . He had hundred of tonnes of 'em. Only the sort of dudes who don’t believe we landed ont he Moon think otherwise. And, they were definatly working on nukes. However, the fact is, that the UN destroyed most of them right after Desert Storm. About 5\>10% were left unaccounted for when Saddam kicked the UN Inspectors out. After that he could have made more. Or not. The 90%+/- they destroyed _could_ have been all of them- or not. Saddam claimed he destroyed some, but he didn’t have the records or enough evidence to satisfy the UN. Blix did go in expecting to find more, and Blix was openly suspicious of Saddams poor evidence & documentation. Saddam could have hid them _real_ well- or not. Saddam could have moved them to Syria- there is evidence he moved_stuff_ to Syria, but what was it? And there didn’t seem to be enough transport to take care of the WMD we _thought_ he had. Maybe it was just records that would prove his guilt, maybe gold, his video colletcion of him torturing people, maybe _anything_ . If you like, you can take a position that the UN (or Iraq under UN supervision) destroyed all the WMD after Desert Storm, and that Saddam didn’t build any more. Unlikely, but possible. But taking a position that the tonnes that the UN have fuckin vidoes of them destroying never existed is just being a loon. My WAG is that most of the “unaccounted” for (pre-Desert Storm) WMD was mostly bad paperwork, and stuff lost (that desert is damn HUGE). Saddam did build a little bit more, then moved the crap to Syria after GWB gave his ultimatum. However, I do agree that the huge & dangerous arsenal that GWB seemed to _think_ Saddam had (post Desert Storm) was likely “never there”. Saddam was EVIL scum, but not a danger to _us_ . ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2004, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613/20 "2004-03-27T02:23:40Z")
> [@](#): > > **Jon the Geek** : Duh! The black helicopters were reverse-engineered from alien technology, which travelled thousands of light years before crashing in Roswell. \ > > I’m sick of people stating the “no WMD” thing as if they really know. Welcome, Jon. Do you really want to debate only things that we know for sure (like the origin of those alien helicopters)? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wmds-may-yet-be-found/236613.md?page=2)