# Woke Me When It's Over **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 22, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woke-me-when-its-over/842159 "2019-10-22T21:56:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woke-me-when-its-over/842159/101 "2019-10-24T23:57:25Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I not only don’t “recognize” it, I emphatically disagree that those things were dumb except in a very cynical and self interested way given the climate. Your own post contradicts itself. You criticize Damon for “falsely implying that the movement treats every accusation and form of sexual assault/harassment/rape the same”, but then _in the very same sentence_ criticize him for saying they are not the same! :smack: That is some grandmaster level doublethink right there, wow. No, that’s not what I said. I criticized him for implicitly minimizing “patting on the butt”. What he said was dumb. Do you agree with him that #MeToo treats all accusations and misbehavior the same? If so, you’re very ignorant of the #MeToo movement. > [@](#): > > I of course know beyond the shadow of a doubt that this accusation was false. And how could the motivation of the accuser not be dishonest, anonymously accusing him of rape when he was hundreds of miles away at the time claimed? What kind of honest motivation could lead to that? Perhaps… of course I have no way of knowing any of this. Maybe you’re right, or maybe this is inaccurate for a variety of possible reasons. > [@](#): > > Besides which, what did the motivation of the accuser have to do with any of this anyway? We were talking about the question of “believing women”, not about what their motivations for false accusations might be. You’ve shown again and again that you don’t understand what “believe women” means in practice. It means treating every accusation with seriousness and refraining from denigrating women for telling their stories. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woke-me-when-its-over/842159/102 "2019-10-25T01:16:12Z")
Wow, man. Just, wow. I dig deep and relate the story of my best friend’s death, a death that’s still very painful for me to think about, and you throw around a word like “inaccurate”? Real fucking cool. How about showing some humanity? JFC Fuck this, I’m out. Unsubscribing from the thread. Have fun. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woke-me-when-its-over/842159/103 "2019-10-25T04:38:15Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > That was shitty. Terrible. Unconscionable. But you are committing the fallacy of the excluded middle, if not flat-out strawmanning me. Let’s review what I actually said: > > So where do you get off saying I “don’t do nuance”? Yes. And what you said means or implies that the #MeToo movement aims at making people “automatically believing accusations are accurate”. Which is what what you quoted me saying it telling you is wrong. > [@](#): > > We have been at loggerheads for most of this discussion, but I found this side thread of yours quite insightful and interesting. I think you’ll find it was also funny and written in an incomparable style :mad:. Bitch. 🙂 > [@](#): > > What exactly was dumb about what he said? I submit that it was the outraged reaction that was dumb. What he said was in the vicinity of “but come on, a pat on the ass isn’t so bad, surely ?” when whether or not it’s on a different level on harm has no relevance whatsoever when the whole point is that any for of sexual harassment is 100% unacceptable nor has its place in a work environment for any reason whatsoever. It, in essence, legitimizes “light” sexual harassment because c’mon, it’s not rape, you guys, you’re not gonna fire a guy over that… So yeah. Famous guy opinion is bad, and he deffo missed a golden opportunity to shut the fuck up. > [@](#): > > No, it was an actual accusation which snowballed into a rumor. […] Well that’s sad and sucks, and I can empathize ; but I’m not sure how you think the cops _should_ have handled this, either ? Ignore the anonymous tip ? How could they have known your mate was innocent without investigating, which in turn necessitates accepting the possible validity of the claim ? > [@](#): > > Again with the excluded middle. And not all middles are at precise midpoints. What I want to be is the person saying the misogynistic self-loathing trog has about 10% of a point. And if we steadfastly deny every iota of everything he says, that just helps him recruit the teenage white boys coming up through the pipeline. We have to be honest about some things so the red pill crowd cannot point to our dishonesty to undermine everything else we might want to convey. (Steven Pinker made a similar point about the alt-right and got predictably pilloried for it.) And they’re both wrong, because red pill indoctrinating doesn’t really involve the strength of their arguments at all ; nor does debunking their arguments do anything to de-radicalize them. I mean, fuck, their arguments make no sense whatsoever in aggregate. They’re self-contradictory conclusions derived from spurious claims and imprinted not by reason, but by relentless hammering repetition. It’s all based on affect and social manipulation. Here’s a [good video on the subject](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P55t6eryY3g&t=1s) dealing with the alt-right in general ; and here’s a [deep insightful dive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD2briZ6fB0&t=796s) on incels specifically. Don’t give the fash (or, in this case, the bad faith mysoginists) an inch. That’s how you get [rhinoceros’d](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_(play)). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woke-me-when-its-over/842159/104 "2019-10-25T09:51:21Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Wow, man. Just, wow. I dig deep and relate the story of my best friend’s death, a death that’s still very painful for me to think about, and you throw around a word like “inaccurate”? Real fucking cool. How about showing some humanity? JFC > > Fuck this, I’m out. Unsubscribing from the thread. Have fun. Congratulations on your victimhood! Well done! ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woke-me-when-its-over/842159/105 "2019-10-25T12:30:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Congratulations on your victimhood! Well done! Look what you did! No wonder you are the most dangerous poster on this board! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woke-me-when-its-over/842159/106 "2019-10-25T16:41:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Congratulations on your victimhood! Well done! It’s moot now, but if **SlackerInc** was telling the truth, and I have no reason to doubt him, he had direct knowledge of a solid alibi which proves that the accusation was false (he was in another city with the friend on the night of the rape). I don’t see much room for skepticism on that front. Perhaps you think the friend left college for reasons other than being the target of a rape rumor. I don’t think you have reason to question that. It seems likely that an “introvert with a slight speech impediment”, “the first person in his family to attend college”, would leave college when falsely perceived as a rapist. Presumably **SlackerInc** talked about this with him - they were best friends. I think **SlackerInc** should open his mind up to the possibility that the girl in question really was raped but by someone else; she may have identified Tom by mistake. I would be surprised if **SlackerInc** came out of this ordeal with unabashed respect for campus authorities. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woke-me-when-its-over/842159/107 "2019-10-25T16:50:00Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > It’s moot now, but if **SlackerInc** was telling the truth, and I have no reason to doubt him, he had direct knowledge of a solid alibi which proves that the accusation was false (he was in another city with the friend on the night of the rape). I don’t see much room for skepticism on that front. > > Perhaps you think the friend left college for reasons other than being the target of a rape rumor. I don’t think you have reason to question that. It seems likely that an “introvert with a slight speech impediment”, “the first person in his family to attend college”, would leave college when falsely perceived as a rapist. Presumably **SlackerInc** talked about this with him - they were best friends. > > I think **SlackerInc** should open his mind up to the possibility that the girl in question really was raped but by someone else; she may have identified Tom by mistake. I would be surprised if **SlackerInc** came out of this ordeal with unabashed respect for campus authorities. > > ~Max I haven’t made any judgment at all about this story. Maybe it’s accurate, maybe it’s not. I have no way of knowing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woke-me-when-its-over/842159.md?page=5)