# Wolfowitz takes lying to a new level **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 5, 2003, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656 "2003-09-05T03:55:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TheMemeWarrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TheMemeWarrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheMemeWarrior)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/1 "2003-09-05T03:55:24Z")
[http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/09/04/sprj.irq.main/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/09/04/sprj.irq.main/index.html) Seriously what is going on when a high ranking governemnt official just starts making up reality in front of what I’m sure are very intelligent press officials who must follow the news. I hope he’s just doing this to piss off the French and scuttle any hope of a UN mandate, cause if he’s actually crazy enough to believe what he’s saying I can see a Dr. Strangelove scenario playing out any day now. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/2 "2003-09-05T04:25:51Z")
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia. Oceania has never been at war with Eurasia. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/3 "2003-09-05T04:40:40Z")
From the article: > [@](#): > > \*\*Seeking a new U.N. resolution, he said, “didn’t sort of emerge out of nowhere a few days ago.” > > “It’s been on our agenda ever since the fall of Baghdad,” Wolfowitz said.\*\* Sure it has, Wolfie-boy… it was just _reeeal_ low on the agenda. Somewhere after “Send Al Gore a thank-you card for his support,” I’m guessing. Sure. ---
**Author:** ![Eolbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@Eolbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eolbo)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/4 "2003-09-05T05:03:42Z")
From that link: > [@](#): > > “The bombing of the U.N. headquarters, I think, changed the atmosphere in New York and it looks like we can move forward in that area,” Oh its all so clear to me now! Ah yes it was always the UN that was the obstacle to UN involvement. Fortunately for us the always multi-lateral Bush admin has now overcome UN objections. Fancy that! ---
**Author:** ![Wake\_up\_call](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dec6dc/32.png) [@Wake\_up\_call](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wake_up_call)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/5 "2003-09-05T05:59:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheMemeWarrior \* > \*\* > Seriously what is going on when a high ranking government official just starts making up reality in front of what I’m sure are very intelligent press officials who must follow the news. \*\* Reality 1: The U.S. wanted to invade Iraq. The French and the Germans said NO. Reality 2: The US said screw you to the French, the Germans, and the UN. The US and the UK said we are going to invade anyway… And they did. They said UN was irrelevant. Reality 3: Now the US and the UK are stuck in shit. They are losing their soldiers and billions of dollars daily. Reality 4: So, they are going back to the UN and asking for France and Germany to put up the life of their soldiers and the dollars of their tax payers money to solve the “Iraq Problem” Here is the answer to the US, begging the UN: Fuck You. We told you not to do it. But you arrogant bastards went ahead and did it. Now, you fucking arrogant bastards, pay the price, and don’t come back begging the very UN you considered irrelevant just 6 months ago. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/6 "2003-09-05T06:10:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avalonian \* > Sure it has, Wolfie-boy… it was just _reeeal_ low on the agenda. Somewhere after “Send Al Gore a thank-you card for his support,” I’m guessing. I dunno, I don’t find it _that_ implausible that the Bush Administration had planned to approach the UN for a new resolution all along. I mean, someone like Rumsfeld or Wolfowitz might have had this planned schedule of events: 1. Invade Iraq. 2. Overthrow Saddam Hussein. 3. Secure oil fields. 4. Find WMDs, gloat “we told you so” to critics. 5. Be gracious and offer to let UN on some of the action. 6. Swap in UN troops, swap out US troops. 7. Pump oil. 8. Profit! ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/7 "2003-09-05T06:31:00Z")
I think, more than likely, you are seeing an attempt to spin the obvious State Dept. romp over the civilian Pentagon (Rummy/Wolfie) leadership that just got delivered by Powell, the Joint Chiefs, and the ground commanders. They have egg on their face, the President is obviously siding now with State and U.N. involvement in Iraq in direct contradiction to months and months of civilian Pentagon direction. The civilian Pentagon leadership is now the odd-man out and is attempting to pull off a “me too!” to deflact on State’s coup. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/8 "2003-09-05T06:32:31Z")
Grrr… to clarify: “They have egg…” referring to the civilian Pentagon leadership. “…to deflact…” should be “…to deflect…” ---
**Author:** ![T.Mehr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@T.Mehr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.Mehr)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/9 "2003-09-05T10:43:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*From the article: > He described last month’s deadly bombing of the U.N. headquarters in Baghdad as a “breakthrough – a sad one” – in bringing the international community aboard. > \*\* I have the feeling, that everyone here pretty much agrees. But this is raely the most outrageous bullshit I had to read from this asshole! And no, **rjung** I don’t belive that there was ever a plan to bring the UN in on this. Not before the current mess, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/10 "2003-09-05T12:50:16Z")
rjung, Unfortunately point 4 of your list didn’t work out and unfortunately, the others didn’t trust it to work out to begin with. They trusted the reports of Hans Blix and mistrusted the presentations of no-facts and no-observations and no-evidence by the USA. Point 4 of your list thus still being some tiny obstacle for the USA to continue their act as if nothing the UN said against their invasion was even remotely relevant. Salaam A ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/11 "2003-09-05T12:53:12Z")
rjung, Unfortunately point 4 of your list didn’t work out and unfortunately, the others didn’t trust it to work out to begin with. They trusted the reports of Hans Blix and mistrusted the presentations of no-facts and no-observations and no-evidence by the USA. Point 4 of your list thus still being some tiny obstacle for the USA to continue their act as if nothing the UN said against their invasion was even remotely relevant. By the way: The US declared more then once that the UN would have nothing to do with “the reconstruction” of Iraq and was “not welcome”. We can trust on it that UN members don’t suffer from such a selective amnesia as the US government displays. Salaam A ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/12 "2003-09-05T12:55:14Z")
Sorry for the double post. Pushed a wrong button here. Ignore the first one. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/13 "2003-09-05T13:09:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\* planned schedule of events: > > 1. Invade Iraq. > 2. Overthrow Saddam Hussein. > 3. Secure oil fields. > 4. Find WMDs, gloat “we told you so” to critics. > 5. Be gracious and offer to let UN on some of the action. > 6. Swap in UN troops, swap out US troops. > 7. Pump oil. > 8. Profit! \*\* Lets complete the list an therefore make it more plausible: 1. Invade next “Axis of Evil” country 2. Pass the cleaning job to UN 3. Invade next “Axis of Evil” country In this context UN would have figured as “participant”. What irked me more of Wolfies speech was this part: > [@](#): > > We all understand the enormous value of expanding this coalition." He talks about expanding “THIS COALITION !” Which obviosly means the US coalition. Wow… he doesnt even try to fake it a bit. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/14 "2003-09-05T13:22:14Z")
I agree with all the above except the “fuck you” sentiment. The UN’s raison d’être is to clear up other people’s messes. Doesn’t make a difference that it’s the US who created this one, and doesn’t make any difference that the US bit its thumb at the UN beforehand. It should act as much as possible as an impartial humaitarian organization. (BTW this ain’t no debate so far. Where are the conservatives in this thread to disagree with the OP? I’m starting to think the right-wing conspiracists are right… have we liberals taken over?!? I think… I miss **december**. :eek: ) ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/15 "2003-09-05T13:23:57Z")
I think cartoons are a thousand words in an image: > **[MSNBC News - Breaking News and News Today | Latest News](https://www.msnbc.com/)** > > MSNBC breaking news and the latest news for today. Get daily news from local news reporters and world news updates with live audio & video from our team. [http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/horsey/viewbytopic.asp?topic=International%20news&id=595](http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/horsey/viewbytopic.asp?topic=International%20news&id=595) ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/16 "2003-09-05T13:33:08Z")
jjimm… lets say the UN goes in and sucessfully keeps Iraq under control and makes a nice clean transition to Iraqi power ? ( I know a lot of well wishing). Bush and the gang will think “Wow… we can now invade “X” and the UN will clear up the mess we do.” So no country wants to make Bush think that he can go at it again. What is more important fixing Iraq or NOT getting a second Iraq going somewhere else ? (I know ideally it shouldnt be). Remember the UN doesnt exist by itself… but thru money and troops of member countries… members that dont want to help the US feel good about doing shit. The same members the US disregarded when discussing the invasion resolutions. To think the UN is completely tied to its “ideals” is foolish when asking for body bag material. ---
**Author:** ![sinical\_brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@sinical\_brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinical_brit)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/17 "2003-09-05T13:36:07Z")
Go Wake up call, Go !!! Class . Sinical Brit ---
**Author:** ![T.Mehr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@T.Mehr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.Mehr)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/18 "2003-09-05T13:43:14Z")
**Rashak Mani** you can’t deny Iraq a future because you want to teach Bush. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/19 "2003-09-05T13:49:46Z")
Hear hear, **T. Mehr**. Revenge is not an option. Substitute “Turkey” for “US” or “Indonesia” for “US” and then think of the attitude towards Cyprus or East Timor. ---
**Author:** ![T.Mehr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@T.Mehr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.Mehr)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656/20 "2003-09-05T14:03:12Z")
I don’t get it **jjimm**. Everything must be done to clean up the mess in Iraq. Regardless of who caused it. Where is revenge? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wolfowitz-takes-lying-to-a-new-level/199656.md?page=2)