# Woman attempts suicide then gets compensation - WTF?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 6, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371 "2005-12-06T16:16:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/41 "2005-12-07T15:37:07Z")
> [@St. Urho](#): > > We’re only human, you know. Roads change, new houses are built, roads are under construction. Also, there’s dispatch errors and people give inaccurate information when they call. Hell, people get lost. I’ve gotten lost responding to calls. I’ll get lost responding to a call in the future, too. We do our best, but it’s not reasonable to expect us to be perfect. In addition, we don’t even know that this ambulance crew got lost, they may just have had a long, long way to go. And please don’t call us ambulance drivers. > > To add to what others have said, I don’t think we have anywhere near enough info on what really happened. I’m curious about what caused the delayed response and what the “catalogue of errors” was. Bah, in the medical field no errors are permitted! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/42 "2005-12-07T15:40:39Z")
Shit, you’re going to sue me now, aren’t you? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/43 "2005-12-07T16:32:02Z")
For one _billion_ dollars. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/44 "2005-12-07T17:26:21Z")
Regardless of the excuses people can come up with for this woman’s case, did you guys read the examples of “Compensation Culture” at the bottom of the linked article? # Lorraine Capener, 53, a mortuary technician, received £15,000 from an employment tribunal in October after developing a morbid fear of death # A soldier injured when he fell from an army lorry as he “windsurfed” on the tailgate received £75,000 from the MoD # Marvin Pomfret received £75,000 in 2002 after blaming his violent criminal career on his attendance at a school for children with learning difficulties # The mother of an unruly teenager who suffered from anxiety after he was expelled for taking a knife to school won £11,000 from Greenwich council Who are the fucking idiots who award these compensations? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/45 "2005-12-07T17:57:30Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Regardless of the excuses people can come up with for this woman’s case, did you guys read the examples of “Compensation Culture” at the bottom of the linked article? > > # Lorraine Capener, 53, a mortuary technician, received £15,000 from an employment tribunal in October after developing a morbid fear of death > > # A soldier injured when he fell from an army lorry as he “windsurfed” on the tailgate received £75,000 from the MoD > > # Marvin Pomfret received £75,000 in 2002 after blaming his violent criminal career on his attendance at a school for children with learning difficulties > > # The mother of an unruly teenager who suffered from anxiety after he was expelled for taking a knife to school won £11,000 from Greenwich council > > Who are the fucking idiots who award these compensations? I’d like to see more about these cases than the one line provided to each in this article. As the responses in this thread show, it’s pretty easy to take a complex situation, simplify it until it sounds absurd, and spin the whole thing as a miscarriage of justice. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/46 "2005-12-07T18:54:52Z")
Twenty six minutes for an ambulance to arrive is unacceptable. It’s not as if where the incident took place is in a rural setting, either. Whether the injury was self inflicted or not is irrelevant, it could have been a heart attack, fall, fire or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/47 "2005-12-07T18:58:44Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’d like to see more about these cases than the one line provided to each in this article. As the responses in this thread show, it’s pretty easy to take a complex situation, simplify it until it sounds absurd, and spin the whole thing as a miscarriage of justice. I went ahead and searched for more info on the first case, and found [this](http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16214673&method=full&siteid=50061&headline=sacked-woman-wins--pound-15-000-name_page.html), which shows that the story is very different from what the Times described. I’m appalled as to how Times distorted this, as I had previously assumed that it was a respected newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/48 "2005-12-07T20:01:54Z")
While the woman (under PPD) didn’t place value on her life for that moment in time that she OD’d, the husband DID value her life and made the call to emergency services. Some of us keep thinking she didn’t deserve the 2.8M, but in all actuality, the money is meant for her care to ease the burden of the husband who does have the greatest interest in her welfare. Better yet, HE was the one that sued (as her power of attorney, custodian, representative, whatever) because HE expected the ambulance to arrive at the expected time. HE expected the ambulance crew to apply proper and correct medical procedures that an ambulance crew is expected to dispense. When that didn’t happen, I’m sure that HE was the one who was upset and sued, not her…she’s pretty much an equivalent of an advanced alzheimer’s case. HE’s the one with the beef, not her. I think some of us have already forgotten what the Schivo case has taught us…the spouse has expectations and rights in a family related matter and represents the interests of their spouse. Whether or not the husband should have seen this overdose coming, I doubt that would have any bearing on the suit. Many woman suffer from PDD, but the majority of them do not go to great lengths to try suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/49 "2005-12-07T20:20:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > In addition, should her physicians be expected to be able to diagnose psychological issues? Should her _husband_? If she didn’t already have a psychiatrist or psychologist, who, exactly, should be expected to recognize the symptoms of post-partum depression? Seriously? Good question. I have never suffered from PPD, but I AM curious as to how it is usually diagnosed and by whom. I would assume that a spouse or primary care physician would be the first to notice the symptoms, wouldn’t they? This isn’t posting out of my ass (I have done enough of that for one thread… 😉 ), I would like to hear some thoughts. I can’t imagine that women are expected to self-diagnose, understand that it isn’t just sadness or “baby blues” but an actual medical condition, and seek appropriate services. Are they? ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/50 "2005-12-07T20:37:25Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > Seriously? Good question. I have never suffered from PPD, but I AM curious as to how it is usually diagnosed and by whom. I would assume that a spouse or primary care physician would be the first to notice the symptoms, wouldn’t they? > > This isn’t posting out of my ass (I have done enough of that for one thread… 😉 ), I would like to hear some thoughts. > > I can’t imagine that women are expected to self-diagnose, understand that it isn’t just sadness or “baby blues” but an actual medical condition, and seek appropriate services. Are they? I don’t know how much of a “should” there is here - I assume the primary care physician or whoever handles “well baby checkups” or whatever they’re called is trained in it; given how much attention there’s been to the disease lately, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was standard to discuss it with women. However, if someone’s severely screwed up by a psychiatric disorder, it might not matter to them if it’s a biological illness if they’re focused on lying on the couch and contemplating suicide. All around, a tragedy. I don’t think anyone would argue with that. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/51 "2005-12-07T20:53:33Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > Seriously? Good question. I have never suffered from PPD, but I AM curious as to how it is usually diagnosed and by whom. I would assume that a spouse or primary care physician would be the first to notice the symptoms, wouldn’t they? > > This isn’t posting out of my ass (I have done enough of that for one thread… 😉 ), I would like to hear some thoughts. > > I can’t imagine that women are expected to self-diagnose, understand that it isn’t just sadness or “baby blues” but an actual medical condition, and seek appropriate services. Are they? Well, like any medical condition, the patient has to recognize that something is wrong and get help to get treatment. Someone with appendicitus still has to go to a doctor and say, “I hurt right here,” before they can do anything. The problem with depression is that its extremely difficult for the victim to recognize that what they’re feeling is abnormal. I suffered from mild depression and low self-esteem for several years. I never sought help for the first condition because of the second: the way I reasoned, I deserved to feel like shit because I was such a worthless person. And the depression was mild enough that no one else ever realized what was happening. I’d say I was “tired” and go to bed early, but really I was just in there weeping quietly for no particular reason. Luckily for me, my depression wasn’t chemical, but due to other factors in my life, and when I was able to finally recognize and resolve those factors, the depression cleared itself up, but other people aren’t so lucky. Now, this situation is a little different, as the woman was suffering from post-partum depression and was (I assume) under the care of an OB/GYN. But even then, if she wasn’t presenting any symptoms to her doctor, how was he supposed to know there was somethng else going on? It’s not the sort of thing you can spot in a blood test, and while more common than most people think, it’s still rare enough that it doesn’t make any sense to insist that all new mothers get psychological counseling just in case. The sad fact is, due to the nature of the disease, it pretty much _is_ up to the patient to self-diagnose and get help. At the same time, the nature of the disease often makes it impossible for the patient to do so, as it has impaired their ability to think rationally and coherently about their condition. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/52 "2005-12-07T22:27:56Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Regardless of the excuses people can come up with for this woman’s case, did you guys read the examples of “Compensation Culture” at the bottom of the linked article? > > \<\\> > > Who are the fucking idiots who award these compensations? Those little sound bites are the case reduced to its most absurd and slanted interpretation. There is surely much more to the story than what those examples state. ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/53 "2005-12-07T23:28:59Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > For one _billion_ dollars. 😃 After consulting with my legal team, we’re prepared to offer you a settlement of up to a cookie. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/54 "2005-12-08T03:55:21Z")
> [@Dead Cat](#): > > **black455** , whilst I appreciate that this is the Pit and you are therefore perfectly entitled to express yourself in the way you did, I would genuinely like to know more about why you disagree so vehemently. If it’s too personal, sorry if I touched a nerve. Please also see my apology above. I’ve got a lot of personal experience with mental illness. I’ve never been seriously depressed myself, but I’m very close to several people who have, among other problems. None of them have the luxury of dealing with their various illnesses in a vacuum; they’re consistently undermined by people who possess an almost malicious, obstinate ignorance about the way that psychiatric problems work. Your subsequent statements and questions reveal to me that you’re not one of those people - you seem to be willing to admit that your initial judgement was made without all the facts, and you’re open to learning more about them. So I take it back - you may stop fucking yourself. Unlike **JohnBckWLD** , who’s a malignant dickface. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/55 "2005-12-08T05:29:20Z")
> [@](#): > > **furt** : I am and have been clinically depressed for 12 years, and I think people do bear significant responsibility for things they do while depressed, including suicide attempts. \ > > I do know that if I start slashing away at my wrists and end up dead, the ultimate blame lies with me. That may be true for you. I don’t know. But not all depression is the same. There are different kinds and levels. Sometimes it’s coupled with anxiety. Sometimes there is utter confusion or the part of the brain that is responsible for _judgment_ is damaged – through no fault of the person with depression. Some people just “go away” mentally. That is one way that the depressed person differs from the man on the mountain. He had a completely rational mind with which to make the decision to put himself in danger by climbing the mountain. I admire your ability to continue to teach with depression. I finally had to take disability after 20 years of it. I didn’t realize that I was having a major episode again. I gave out report cards one Wednesday in October of 1989 and drove to a scheduled appointment with my doctor for an annual checkup. But I couldn’t stop crying. I didn’t even go home. He put me in the hospital to run some tests on my heart and then called in a psychiatrist. I never returned to the classroom. ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/56 "2005-12-08T06:01:58Z")
> [@Dominic Mulligan](#): > > Twenty six minutes for an ambulance to arrive is unacceptable. It’s not as if where the incident took place is in a rural setting, either. Whether the injury was self inflicted or not is irrelevant, it could have been a heart attack, fall, fire or anything. Again, what are you basing this on? ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/57 "2005-12-08T06:53:21Z")
> [@black455](#): > > Malignant dickface. Were you able to get a finger out of your straightjacket to type that insightful remark - or were you forced to hunt and peck with your nose? ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/58 "2005-12-08T12:11:00Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > I’m appalled as to how Times distorted this, as I had previously assumed that it was a respected newspaper. That’s really quite amusing 😃 . It’s respected, but not particularly respectable. Every paper in the UK is slanted in its reporting to a greater or lesser degree (the Times is very reliably right-wing). The largest-selling papers (the tabloids) are without exception scurrilous rags which will print absolutely anything that sells copies and/or servers their editorial goals with no concern whatsoever for anything other than the possible legal bill. The broadsheets are a bit better, but still not totally trustworthy. Apply generous quantities of scepticism to anything you read in a UK newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/59 "2005-12-08T12:38:18Z")
> [@St. Urho](#): > > Again, what are you basing this on? Ambulance services divide calls into Category A (life-threatening) and Category B (all others). Assuming this to be a Category A call, they’re supposed to arrive within eight minutes. Even in a Category B, they’re supposed to be there within 14 minutes, or 19 in a rural location. (These are government-mandated targets for response time.) 26 minutes is way over the limits. (Remember, England is a comparatively small and densely populated country - there aren’t big gaps in emergency service coverage, here.) ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371/60 "2005-12-08T13:59:02Z")
Whoops, my bad. I got mixed up reading the article and thought the husband found her unconscious. Still, how long had it been from the time she attempted suicide till her husband found her? If it had been hours, then would the extra sixteen minutes have made a difference? That’s something we can’t gather from reading the article. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-attempts-suicide-then-gets-compensation-wtf/334371.md?page=4)