# Woman blogs about sexual assault at tech conference **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 7, 2010, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766 "2010-11-07T03:56:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/301 "2010-11-11T03:39:22Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Most people in my experience don’t lie about being groped, raped, and sexually assaulted \ The false rape society: [http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/](http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/) > [@](#): > > …You seem to be thinking that hearing his side of the story will automatically mean we’ll be closer to the truth. Not bloodly likely. Would you like to apply the same standard to women who kill their husbands? > [@](#): > > …But I will say that if a grown man guy is so clueless when drunk that he loses the ability to control his own behavior and respect other people’s boundaries, to the extent that he’s actually assualting people and breaking the law, then he’s dangerous and shouldn’t be regarded as some well-meaning but misunderstood bloke. Not that this how I would characterize this guy. If the blogger’s account of true, the guy knew perfectly well that he was going against her wishes but didn’t care. So he’s whatever that would make him. I guess a flaming asshole. What is your judgment about her actions? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/302 "2010-11-11T03:40:37Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Okay, but those reasons aren’t necessarily justified reasons. Except for self-defense, no one is justified in punching another person out of the blue. If your friends insists they were randomly whacked (even after multiple rounds of you interrogating them), then at a certain point it becomes stupid to fall back on what most people in your experience do. Doubting them because of what occurs in your limited set of experiences (and they sound pretty limited, sorry) is stupid. You’re quite right in that, but here, we haven’t had even ONE round of questioning, all we have is what blogger wrote. We haven’t spoken to her, or to him. So judgement should all the more be reserved, right? > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Most people in my experience don’t lie about being groped, raped, and sexually assaulted but you know what? That doesn’t mean I’m automatically going to believe a claim of such. Notice how a few guys in this thread have mentioned how they or someone they knew were false accused of sexual impropriety? Notice how no one is interrogating them or blaming them for what had happened to them or asking to justify why they reacted the way they did? **Why aren’t you asking them to explain why the women singled them out for false accusations? Would it even occur to you to do that?** If the thread was about them, sure. The thread is not about them. The thread is about the appropriateness of putting such a damaging accusation out to the world. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > A little more information **will not automatically** help us decide what box to put this guy into. The blogger says one thing and odds are, he is going to say something different happened. She says she told him “no” and that he understood that but still took liberties anyway because he wanted what he wanted; he’ll probably say he thought she was just kidding around and made a miscalculation, oopsie! Who’s word should we take? > > You seem to be thinking that hearing his side of the story will automatically mean we’ll be closer to the truth. Not bloodly likely. More information will always help us. Whether its credible or has to be totally discounted we don’t know. But what, you’re suggesting that because **you think** the guy will lie, we shouldn’t even ask? Because it might traumatise the blogger we can’t even ask her to clarify at all? That’s not a very realistic position is it. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > It’s not that I don’t think they’re important. I just don’t think there’s any realistic way we could make that determination based on he said-she said. So it’s a irrelevant question in this kind of topical discussion. No, what we do is we speak to her, we speak to him, we speak to others that were there asking all sorts of questions, then we make a judgement, which is also going to be coloured by our own experiences, on what we feel is the most likely scenario. What we don’t do is say. Well, she blogged it. It’s fact. Let’s hang him out to dry without investigating further. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > But I will say that if a grown man guy is so clueless when drunk that he loses the ability to control his own behavior and respect other people’s boundaries, to the extent that he’s actually assualting people and breaking the law, then he’s dangerous and shouldn’t be regarded as some well-meaning but misunderstood bloke. Not that this how I would characterize this guy. If the blogger’s account of true, the guy knew perfectly well that he was going against her wishes but didn’t care. So he’s whatever that would make him. I guess a flaming asshole. Well I could counter that a woman that goes around plopping her butt in other guy’s crotches is so clueless about appropriate professional / behaviour that her account also cannot be trusted. But the fact of the matter is, it can - the problem when you speak in moral absolutes is that you do both parties a disfavour. The truth of the matter is likely to lay somewhere in the middle ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/303 "2010-11-11T03:46:28Z")
> [@MaddyStrut](#): > > This thread is making me very confused. > > Do you guys _really_ think that a woman dressed in a sexy outfit, drinking, and flirting is equivalent to walking down the street with a wheelbarrow full of cash or yelling out insults about someone’s mother during a bar argument? Send me a a gob of money to put in my wheelbarrow and I’ll priss myself up and and insult your mother as I sashay into the bar. Thing is, she really shouldn’t have blogged with such details before talking to the cops. Real or Perceived, she should have kept things underwraps until the copts were talked too. Two, reading her other blog post about her marriage, it isn’t exactly clear, but her husband sounds like he had alot of health issues or mental/brain issues and wasn’t there for her in the woo-woo department. So, she is probably sending off more signals than a 4th of July Fireworks barge in a room full of drunk engineers. I’m not giving them permission to gang bang or do bukkake. She probably was acting like a teenager at her first party and totally digging all the male attention. Given the decision between talking shop over beers or watching one of the few chicks in the room twirl and flirt around the room and sit on laps, what would you (The Drinking Engineer) rather do? Thirdly, is it common to bring people back to your room for beer pong and stuff? I mean, do rooms have ping pong tables or big enough tables for such activities? Fourthly, if she were black and he were black (or any other color than white), would this have made the rounds? ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/304 "2010-11-11T03:51:32Z")
What is our judgment of her actions? I think that a Google employee has a hell of a lot more to lose than an average person by lying publicly on the internet. For this alone, she has more than average credibility. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/305 "2010-11-11T03:54:14Z")
So now we are going to judge them based on “who has the most to lose by lying”? yeah, I guess that’s going to work out well ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/306 "2010-11-11T04:01:33Z")
**Rachel** , I wasn’t asking you but thanks for answering anyway. My question is to **you with the face**. Since you think he is a flaming asshole for what he did, what do you have to say about her for the way she acted? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/307 "2010-11-11T04:09:57Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > You’re quite right in that, but here, we haven’t had even ONE round of questioning, all we have is what blogger wrote. We haven’t spoken to her, or to him. So judgement should all the more be reserved, right? You seem to be plenty judgemental. Just not towards the guy. Like I said before, if you were skeptical and _just that_, I would have no problem with your posts. But you keep bouncing between skepticism and victim-blaming. Whichever seems most convenient to your argument of the moment is what gets trotted out in your posts. Either she’s lying/mistaken due to alcohol-induced confusion, or she provoked him, led him on, put herself in a risky situation, etc. This smacks of having a bias against the accuser, not being the disinterested observer of the facts that you seem to think you are. What amazes me is that you really seem to think you’re being objective. > [@](#): > > What we don’t do is say. Well, she blogged it. It’s fact. Let’s hang him out to dry without investigating further. Actually, from the start this thread was been about hanging _her_ out to dry. Read the OP and keep going. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/308 "2010-11-11T04:11:46Z")
> [@Redpill](#): > > My question is to **you with the face**. Since you think he is a flaming asshole for what he did, what do you have to say about her for the way she acted? Tell me what actions of hers you want me to characterize. ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/309 "2010-11-11T04:16:20Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Tell me what actions of hers you want me to characterize. (I think you know exactly what I’m talking about) Sitting on various men’s laps for example. ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/310 "2010-11-11T04:29:36Z")
> [@Shirley\_Ujest](#): > > Two, reading her other blog post about her marriage, it isn’t exactly clear, but her husband sounds like he had alot of health issues or mental/brain issues and wasn’t there for her in the woo-woo department. So, she is probably sending off more signals than a 4th of July Fireworks barge in a room full of drunk engineers. I’m not giving them permission to gang bang or do bukkake. She probably was acting like a teenager at her first party and totally digging all the male attention. Is it also OK to talk about the guy in question having a dry spell and enjoying female attention, and just acting like a teenager? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/311 "2010-11-11T04:39:11Z")
> [@Redpill](#): > > (I think you know exactly what I’m talking about) > > Sitting on various men’s laps for example. Assuming her sitting on their laps was fully consensual and she wasn’t invading their space and making them feel uncomfortable, then at worse, this behavior can be called unprofessionally flirty. I’d assume she was sitting on the laps of guy’s she knew and considered buddies. While such behavior could give a judgemental stranger the impression that the blogger is a good-time girl and not a serious IT professional, for all I know, the culture of their organization encourages juvenile comraderie and horseplay that would make her behavior a non-issue workwise. Which means in a discussion about an alleged sexual assault, I find it silly that people keep harping about the whole lap-sitting thing. What other actions do you want me to talk about, **RedPill**. Her drinking? I’ve had a few drinks at conferences and even have gotten tipsy (gasp!). Probably not the best thing to do, but it’s not a character flaw to drink. What else did she do that warrants talking about? Flirting with people? Well that’s an easy one to characterize. That makes her a flirt. Maybe even a _shameless_ flirt. Scary, I know. Still not anywhere close to flaming asshole, but with all the shameless flirts running the streets nowadays, the world feels so unsafe. ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/312 "2010-11-11T04:47:30Z")
Thank you. A shameless flirt encounters a flaming asshole. What are the odds? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/313 "2010-11-11T04:52:59Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Well I could counter that a woman that goes around plopping her butt in other guy’s crotches is so clueless about appropriate professional / behaviour that her account also cannot be trusted. How does this even make sense to you? People do bone-headed things all the time. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be believed when they say something bad happens to them. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/314 "2010-11-11T04:56:39Z")
> [@Redpill](#): > > A shameless flirt encounters a flaming asshole. What are the odds? And…? I’m waiting for you to tell us what your conclusion is. Because I’d hate to think that you think a shameless flirt is equally culpable as a flaming asshole when it comes to an assault taking place against the former by the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/315 "2010-11-11T04:59:37Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > So now we are going to judge them based on “who has the most to lose by lying”? > > yeah, I guess that’s going to work out well And I suppose it’s better to judge based on the default assumption that flirtatious behavior=asking to be assaulted? They both have a lot to lose by lying, he works for Twitter. His silence is actually pretty condemning. If it weren’t true, she should have been slapped with a libel lawsuit by now. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/316 "2010-11-11T05:08:49Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Notice how a few guys in this thread have mentioned how they or someone they knew were false accused of sexual impropriety? Notice how no one is interrogating them or blaming them for what had happened to them or asking to justify why they reacted the way they did? Why aren’t you asking them to explain why the women singled them out for false accusations? Would it even occur to you to do that? Has it occurred to you that the reason is because most posters don’t want to be accused of being “pro-rapist” by admitting that women _ever_ lie about it? Women lying about rape is an elephant in the living room for our society; we aren’t supposed to admit it happens no matter how blatant. We’re supposed to pretend women are morally superior to men and would never lie about something like that. You also presume that the women in question “singled them out” instead of picking them just because they were convenient or fitted a profile. The Unnamed Scary Black Man being a classic. And if some black guy gets hauled in because he fits the profile what are the odds she cares if an innocent man is sent to prison? ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/317 "2010-11-11T05:12:17Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > And…? I’m waiting for you to tell us what your conclusion is. Because I’d hate to think that you think a shameless flirt is equally culpable as a flaming asshole when it comes to an assault taking place against the former by the latter. You are funny. I didn’t draw any conclusions. Its just a well balanced interpretation of facts as derived from her blog, that we can all agree upon. A married, drunk, shameless flirt got groped by the flaming asshole, drunk guy whose lap she was sitting in. That said, I don’t know if this qualifies as assault, maybe it does. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/318 "2010-11-11T05:14:42Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > And I suppose it’s better to judge based on the default assumption that flirtatious behavior=asking to be assaulted? > > They both have a lot to lose by lying, he works for Twitter. His silence is actually pretty condemning. If it weren’t true, she should have been slapped with a libel lawsuit by now. Actually, isn’t it best to judge after talking to BOTH parties, and anyone else that might have something marginally relevant to add? Yeah, and taking her on with a libel case is really going to make this go away faster? You really think he’s going to be on anything other than a hiding to nothing by trying to prove that this was libellious. And finally, if you take his unwillingness to take her on in the courts as proof of his guilt, isn’t the other side of the coin, something that you may not want to consider, that HER failure to report him to the police is proof of his innocence? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/319 "2010-11-11T05:20:11Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > And I suppose it’s better to judge based on the default assumption that flirtatious behavior=asking to be assaulted? I missed this on the first go round… has anybody, anybody at all in this thread made any sort of claim even approximating flirtatiouis behaviour = asking to be assaulted. That’s why guys can’t talk about these issues and don’t get involved. It always degenerates to: Guy: I want to hear more screaming feminazi: What the fuck do you mean you rape supporter who keeps his wife barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, she said it happened, what else do you need to know. ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/320 "2010-11-11T05:26:33Z")
In my case I don’t feel victimized. I admit I used bad judgment getting myself into the situation I got into, learned a lesson from it. I also wouldn’t have described the scenario in a public blog. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766.md?page=17)