# Woman blogs about sexual assault at tech conference **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 7, 2010, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766 "2010-11-07T03:56:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/341 "2010-11-11T19:00:34Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > But it is pretty darn binary. Let’s look at the key events that caused the problem: > > 1. She makes it clear she is not interested, and pushes him away. Well she made it clear in her mind. There are certainly times when my fiance thinks she made something clear to me, and I have an entirely different interpretation and we know each other very well and are usually quite sober. It is possible that she was way less than she thought she was and her actions did not reflect her thoughts.. It is possible she was clear, but he was too dense to pick up on it. It is possible that he knew exactly what she meant and did it anyway. And of course she could have lied/misremembered the entire situation. Hey look we are above 2 choices and we are only on the third word and isn’t like there are different degrees of pushing away or anything. > [@](#): > > 1. Maybe she did not use clear language with the guy. Using my own judgment, I feel comfortable that if she tried to be clear (and thus the events happened as passed) then she probably was clear. I’m almost certain she told him to “Fuck off” or something very, very close. I base this assumption on her writing style. She seems to be a bit of a spitfire, not a blushing daisy. If she wasn’t interested, I think she would be very likely to say so directly. I really find it unlikely that she was sitting there blushing and giggling and saying “Oh, baby, don’t do that, tee hee, you bad boy.” while mistakenly thinking she was being perfectly clear. These are pretty giant assumptions based on a small wall of text. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/342 "2010-11-11T19:22:14Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > Well she made it clear in her mind. If she did not say words that any reasonable person would clearly interpret as “I’m not interested in have intimate contact with you”, then that falls under “the events did not occur as she described them” What are the actual chances that she said something other than “Fuck off?” Do you really believe that? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/343 "2010-11-11T21:07:45Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > **Bo** , no evidence doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. > > It also doesn’t mean that we can’t shouldn’t take her seriously or at face value. > > All it means is that we need to look a little harder at both sides of the story, and any other independent corroboration that may come about. I never said it didn’t happen. In the post you quoted, I’m only commenting on the analogies that y’all tried to use. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/344 "2010-11-12T21:50:39Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > What are the actual chances that she said something other than “Fuck off?” Do you really believe that? The thing is that we _don’t_ know what was said or what the actual sequence of events was. Personally, I am inclined in the direction of giving the guy the benefit of the doubt, mainly because Ms. Shirley said herself that before this latest incident she had already already become sick of people telling her that she should modify her behaviour to avoid sending men confusing signals. It’s very difficult to entertain the possibility that those who have given her such counsel in the past may have had some clear insight (and that this might have contributed to what happened,) without being met with a chorus of “You’re blaming the victim!” I don’t think it’s reasonable to automatically equate this possibility with the attitude of “Well, _of course_ she got raped… did you see the dress she was wearing?” The fact is that some people are able to disconnect other people’s obligations completely from their own responsibilities to an astonishing degree - which I guess is part of the reason I am a little uncomfortable with the idea of this guy’s name being dragged through the mud on the strength of a single accusation from someone who says this happens to her frequently and she’s sick of people saying she bears some responsibility for it. (Yeah, here comes the personal anecdote.) I was accused of a similar offense at work in the early '90s, which made for a pretty stressful and uncomfortable little stretch of time. In point of fact, my hand _did_ contact a co-worker’s ass. It was a deliberate act, and I was completely caught off-guard when a complaint was made to human resources that I had groped her sexually. I honestly never thought she would batted an eye at that, and expected it to provoke a laugh. Nope, it was a sexual assault and she wanted me fired for it. I doubt that I have your sympathy at this point. However, you may come to understand my surprise and dismay at the reaction to a playful slap. When it occurred, she was bent over, digging in a large box of foam packing chips, trying to find a small part. Her ass was all that was visible of her. I am well aware that by itself this circumstance falls well short of an invitation to ass-smackery, however… _This woman had goosed me practically every day for months, because she found it amusing to do so._ Two fingers, as close to the spot as she could manage, any time an opportunity presented itself. Filing? That’s a goose. Head in the supply cabinet? That’s a goose. Tying your laces? That’s a goose. Ha, ha ha. Apart from this, she frequently kneed me in the butt and then would say “I kneed you!” However, she was adamant that this was _obviously_ totally different from my slap on the ass, for a variety of bizarre reasons, including but-not-limited-to:[ul][li]A woman’s body is sacrosanct, and her buttocks are sexually charged, but a man’s ass is just another part of his body.[_]My hand was open, allowing for a sexually titillating “feel,” while there was hardly any surface-to-surface contact with her poking.[_]She was married, and only her husband could touch her ass, while I was single so there was no trespass there.[/ul]As far as she was concerned, it was “obvious” that the Goose/Gander Maxim didn’t apply to the situation. After all, I did not seem particularly bothered when she goosed me, but she was traumatized. QED.[/li] Lucky for me, there was a full week of CCTV footage to review, which showed both that she had manual contact with my ass several times (even on the same day) leading up to The Incident and also that the contact that _my_ hand made with her butt was not something that might reasonably be characterized as a “grope” but was just a brief swat in passing. HR declined to recommend any disciplinary action or censure for me, which my co-worker took as evidence that the company was a “boy’s club,” where women could be manhandled freely. (The HR dept. consisted of two women, so I remain unclear on how she arrived at this conclusion.) They brought in an outside company to give a presentation to all 300+ employees on workplace sexual harassment, which may have had a little extra emphasis on making sure you aren’t sending misleading signals with your communication and behaviour. She totally dug in her heels and would not let go of the idea that I had committed an unthinkable transgression _for which she had absolutely no responsibility._ When it became clear that I wouldn’t be fired, she claimed that being in proximity to the guy who “groped” her constituted a hostile work environment, and intimated that she might sue the company if they didn’t promote her out of my department. I understand that she was told they were comfortable risking that, and that if she didn’t want to work beside me she’d best find somewhere else to work. She quit in short order, and I have no doubt that in her subsequent accounts of the drama she held to the mis-characterization of the nature of the contact (a panic-inducing grope she endured while struggling to get out of the box) and imagine that she omitted any reference to her own behaviour which most people would probably consider to be exculpatory. I am not so traumatized by these events as to be automatically dismissive of claims of sexual impropriety, but I suppose I might be a little more inclined to be cautious about accepting them at face value. I am particularly cautious in this instance because Ms. Shirley has said that it’s a frequent occurrence and that people often tell her she contributes to it by sending misleading signals. It’s possible that what happened happened more-or-less as she described. It’s also possible that buddy sincerely believed his attentions were welcome, and that the embrace, protest, and hand going down the back of the skirt happened practically simultaneously, leaving him sitting there thinking “Wait…what?” I’m really glad that in my case at least there was a clear document of what had actually taken place- for damn sure I wouldn’t want to be judged publicly by the Internet on the strength of a blog posting. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766/345 "2010-11-12T23:21:59Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > Well she made it clear in her mind. There are certainly times when my fiance thinks she made something clear to me, and I have an entirely different interpretation and we know each other very well and are usually quite sober. It is possible that she was way less than she thought she was and her actions did not reflect her thoughts.. It is possible she was clear, but he was too dense to pick up on it. Is that when you shove your hands in her panties? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-blogs-about-sexual-assault-at-tech-conference/559766.md?page=17)