# Woman caught on tape beating her daughter (Not for the squeamish) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 20, 2002, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777 "2002-09-20T12:13:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![welby1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@welby1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/welby1)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/61 "2002-09-23T14:00:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ivylass \* > \*\*Where’s **Welby1** when you need him? \*\* You can be assured that I would have weighed in on this one had I not been so busy this weekend. Mrs. Welby out of town with a sick and dying Mom and two kids sick with the flu at home, i didn’t even know about this until this morning. Let me say this: Please stupid bitch run far and fast and hide in Fairfax, VA, right next door to me. I’ll even give you a room. That way, when I beat the living shit out of you, shake you, and choke you, I know that my crime won’t be caught on tape. When I break your fingers, toes, arms and legs, then piss on your broken body befoer dragging it into the street to die, there will be no witnesses. I fucking hate you. I vote that when people who beat thier kids, abuse them, and neglect them are found guilty, they simply give them to me to deal with. I will make it a full time, unpaid position without benefits, as long as I’m supplied with the things I need to make the perpetrator sorry. Write your congressman. ---
**Author:** ![Venoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c4cdca/32.png) [@Venoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Venoma)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/62 "2002-09-23T14:21:42Z")
welby, that pretty much describes the way this woman made me feel as well. The only reason she turned herself in was to escape mob justice, I think. ---
**Author:** ![DeskMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DeskMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeskMonkey)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/63 "2002-09-23T15:11:31Z")
Well, she DID say that this was the first time she ever harmed her chidren - EVER. And she said she only pulled her hair - it’s not like she punched her. I say we give this poor woman a break. I mean, imagine the rotten luck of having your first attempt at child beating on video. How embarrassing! D’oh! I rolled my eyes so hard they fell out! ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/64 "2002-09-23T15:20:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*The most disturbing thing about this is the fact that cameras in public places are recording us, and apparently whoever collects the tapes feels free to release them to the media without any form of due process if they see something ‘suspicious’. \*\* I saw the video. I was as horrified as anyone else. I hope she gets a good 10 years behind bars. _ **But…** _ what frightens me even more are **cameras**. Everywhere. This incident does _not_ justify 24-hour surveillance by Big Brother. ---
**Author:** ![Judith\_Prietht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b19c9b/32.png) [@Judith\_Prietht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Judith_Prietht)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/65 "2002-09-23T15:43:24Z")
I saw Toogood on the news either last night or this morning, and she claimed she was scared to turn herself in at first because she’s an Irish Traveller, implying that she feared prejudice from state systems because of her nomadic lifestyle and the reputation of the Travellers as con artists and scammers. Does anyone know anything more about Irish Travellers? ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/66 "2002-09-23T15:52:55Z")
Just for a bit of trivia, I stayed in a hotel near the Indiana border on Saturday night and ate breakfast in the restaurant next to this woman’s family and attorney and listened to them write part of her statement for her. They had all the t.v.'s tuned into the news channels and every time the story came on they would scoff at how unfair they were being. I saw her lawyer on t.v. later that afternoon in the same sweater and shamrock hat that he was wearing in the lobby. For an honest mistake, they were sure working hard to establish some sort of spin. J ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/67 "2002-09-23T15:59:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crafter\_Man \* > \*\* > > _ **But…** _ what frightens me even more are **cameras**. Everywhere. This incident does _not_ justify 24-hour surveillance by Big Brother. \*\* 1. It was the store’s security camera, not the big, bad governmental Big Brother. 2. It was a SECURITY camera, you know, for security. It wasn’t there to spy on people or intrude into people’s lives. 3. It was a public place. 4. If you are more scared of a privately owned, security camera in a public place than the beating of a 4 year old kid, I fear your priorities are a tad bit out of whack. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/68 "2002-09-23T16:26:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Please stupid bitch run far and fast and hide in Fairfax, VA, right next door to me. I’ll even give you a room. That way, when I beat the living shit out of you, shake you, and choke you, I know that my crime won’t be caught on tape. When I break your fingers, toes, arms and legs, then piss on your broken body befoer dragging it into the street to die . . . This is repulsive. Torture is an acceptable punishment to you? You’d a made a good Crusader. Or maybe a lackey for Ashcroft. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/69 "2002-09-23T16:49:00Z")
[Explanation and link to Irish Traveller](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=136341) ---
**Author:** ![Gundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Gundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gundy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/70 "2002-09-23T17:06:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crafter\_Man \* > _ **But…** _ what frightens me even more are **cameras**. Everywhere. This incident does _not_ justify 24-hour surveillance by Big Brother. \*\* A-FUCKING-men. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/71 "2002-09-23T17:53:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > \*\*This is repulsive. Torture is an acceptable punishment to you? You’d a made a good Crusader. Or maybe a lackey for Ashcroft. \*\* I agree. I’m really getting concerned about the over the top responses this has generated. 1. Yes, I think what she did was wrong. 2. But, I also am in the field of human services and let me assure you that of all the cases of documented child abuse running around, this one doesn’t even make it **to** the map, IME. This child was slapped for roughly 25 seconds. Yes, it was horrible. However, talk to your local CPS workers and ask them, what’s the abuse cited in their average case report? Do we have enough foster care homes to care for all the kids of all the parents who’ve slapped their kids? Not even remotely. there’s tons of kids with visible scars from their beatings, years later, broken bones, burns, and those are the ones that lived. Criminey. In one case that I personally know of, the youngest nearly died because of medical negligence on the part of mom. Mom wasn’t charged at all (yes, she lost custody, but even that took several years). Do we have enough prison space to lock 'em all up, too, (for the 10 years talked about above)? Well, sure, if we let loose pretty much who all is in there. What she did was wrong. However, as some one who’s **tried** to get CPS to take **even a report on a child** , let alone take custody, I gotta tell you that this one wouldn’t generally generate much of response. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/72 "2002-09-23T17:54:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by brondicon \* > \*\*I saw Toogood on the news either last night or this morning, and she claimed she was scared to turn herself in at first because she’s an Irish Traveller, implying that she feared prejudice from state systems because of her nomadic lifestyle and the reputation of the Travellers as con artists and scammers. Does anyone know anything more about Irish Travellers? \*\* > [@](#): > > [http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0921videomom21.html](http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0921videomom21.html) > Toogood is believed to be affiliated with an Irish Traveller group known as the Greenhorn Carrolls in Fort Worth and a suburb, White Settlement, Texas. She is also wanted on unrelated warrants in White Settlement and Fort Worth. > > Irish Travellers are descendants of a nomadic ethnic group that came to the United States in the 1800s to escape the potato famine, roaming the country by horse and wagon in search of itinerant work. > > They are Roman Catholics who share biblical names, marry within the group and speak their own dialect. > > Most of the men make their living in home-improvement and business-repair work, such as paving, painting and roofing. > > Law enforcement authorities say some of them scam their clients. > > Joe Livingston, a senior agent with the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division who has investigated Travellers for 18 years, said there are various subclans of Irish Travellers across the country. > > “In Texas, they are the Greenhorn Carrolls,” he said. > > Toogood and another woman, Rose Ann Carroll, had been arrested March 27 at a Kohl’s department store in Fort Worth on charges of theft from $50 to $500, according to computer records and a Fort Worth police report. Maybe she tried the old “shoplift then return for refund” routine in Indiana and the clerk didn’t go for it. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/73 "2002-09-23T18:02:53Z")
> [@](#): > > [http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/nation/4124455.htm](http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/nation/4124455.htm) > The men do the repair work and the women often frequent malls, beauty salons and tanning salons. > > Law enforcement authorities say some Irish Travellers are con artists who make their living pulling one over on outsiders, whom they refer to as ``country people.’’ > > Joe Livingston, a South Carolina-based expert on Travellers, says many are masters at ``illusion and confusion,’’ often obtaining fictious driver’s license and identification cards and using many home addresses. > > ``Most Travellers are fairly wealthy and it is not uncommon for them to hire prominent attorneys to handle major cases - and ones that have been successful in defending their clients. > > ``They are able to afford the best.’’ ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/74 "2002-09-23T18:07:37Z")
The last two lines of my preceding were from Dirk Moore, a Texas member of the National Association of Bunco Investigators who has investigated the Travellers for 12 years. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/75 "2002-09-23T18:20:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hamlet \* > \*\* > > 1. It was the store’s security camera, not the big, bad governmental Big Brother. > > 2. It was a SECURITY camera, you know, for security. It wasn’t there to spy on people or intrude into people’s lives. > > 3. It was a public place. > > 4. If you are more scared of a privately owned, security camera in a public place than the beating of a 4 year old kid, I fear your priorities are a tad bit out of whack. \*\* I’m not saying there’s a legal issue here. As a business, the store can install as many cameras as it wishes. (I also have the option to not shop there.) But my fear is that incidents like this open the door for government-operated cameras at every street corner. You know, for “safety.” Again, I’m not defending this woman’s actions. She’s a scumbag who deserves 10 years busting rocks in a quarry. But whenever there’s a news story wherein a camera has aided police in identifying a suspect, people are naturally swayed to believe “cameras are good.” What’s the obvious end result of this? Simple. More cameras. Operated by the government. In public places. It is my opinion that the operation of government “surveillance” cameras in public places is _more evil_ than the crimes that are being filmed. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/76 "2002-09-24T00:20:23Z")
huh, I haven’t seen the video and am not a member of the CNN site so couldnt watch the link but my mother had something pretty contrary to say about it. She (who never ever hit any of us) said she felt bad for the mother - she said that what she saw on the video was over the top but not much worse than would have been acceptable 15 years ago by 90percent of parents out there. She didn’t see a closed fist though so perhaps she just didn’t get a good look at the reality. The doctor who examined her did say there were no signs of abuse and got annoyed when someone requested a CAT/PET scan. He basically said go get another doctor because this child wasn’t abused. ---
**Author:** ![sulamith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@sulamith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sulamith)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/77 "2002-09-24T02:54:20Z")
For the people who were asking about Irish Travellers, there is a big pocket of them in North Augusta, SC. They live in a neighborhood with very ornate, fancy homes, which are mostly empty. They won’t live in them for a period of time until they are spiritually “clean”. They live in trailers in the back. They are “Catholic”, but I have a feeling they have changed a few things to suit their values. The men all drive brand-new Chevy trucks, mostly with wenches in the back, and they are all gone “travelling” all during the week carrying out their construction scams and stealing equipment and supplies from construction sites. The women, who are always seen together in large numbers and with very large Dynasty hair, drive the gold-edition Caddies and yes, they frequent local shopping malls running all kinds of scams. The “refund” scam was a big one. I wouldn’t be surprised if that is what that woman was trying to do. When I lived in Augusta, Ga, I witnessed alot of their behavior. They would enter a store, and one group would distract the sales people, while another group would shoplift the hell outta anything they could get. They got the kids in on it too. There were about four families, the Carrolls and the Sherlocks being the biggest. They inter-married, all looked alike, and talked just like that quote earlier in this thread. Real intelligent folks, to be sure. They were always on the news due to troubles with the police and the IRS, but somehow they always managed to get out of it. I will be very interested to see how this comes out. The parenting styles I witnessed, while not this violent, were less than stellar. ---
**Author:** ![sulamith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@sulamith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sulamith)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/78 "2002-09-24T02:57:26Z")
For the people who were asking about Irish Travellers, there is a big pocket of them in North Augusta, SC. They live in a neighborhood called Murphy Village, with very ornate, gaudy homes, which are mostly empty. They won’t live in them for a period of time until they are spiritually “clean”. They live in trailers in the back. They are “Catholic”, but I have a feeling they have changed a few things to suit their values. The men all drive brand-new Chevy trucks, mostly with wenches in the back, and they are all gone “travelling” all during the week carrying out their construction scams and stealing equipment and supplies from construction sites. The women, who are always seen together in large numbers and with very large Dynasty hair, drive the gold-edition Caddies and yes, they frequent local shopping malls running all kinds of scams. The “refund” scam was a big one. I wouldn’t be surprised if that is what that woman was trying to do. When I lived in Augusta, Ga, I witnessed alot of their behavior. They would enter a store, and one group would distract the sales people, while another group would shoplift the hell outta anything they could get. They got the kids in on it too. There were about four families, the Carrolls and the Sherlocks being the biggest. They inter-married, all looked alike, and talked just like that quote earlier in this thread. Real intelligent folks, to be sure. They were always on the news due to troubles with the police and the IRS, but somehow they always managed to get out of it. I will be very interested to see how this comes out. The parenting styles I witnessed, while not this violent, were less than stellar. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2002, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/79 "2002-10-01T16:03:10Z")
[_Mr._ Toogood isn’t much of a prize either](http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,64194,00.html). > [@](#): > > Johnny Toogood was charged in Philadelphia in 1998 with several counts, including burglary, criminal trespass, theft and conspiracy, in relation to a home-repair roofing scam that targeted four elderly victims. > > Toogood pleaded guilty to deception and paid $7,000 in restitution to a 92-year-old victim. > > “I’m down on my luck and I just needed money for my family,” said Toogood during his confession, according to court documents obtained by Fox News. “It’s not right that a lot of people make a lot more money. All the men in my family do this. This isn’t a violent crime.” > > The prosecutor in the Philadelphia case said Toogood basically admitted that these “scams” were how he made money and were a way of life among his relatives. > > In the summer of 1999, Johnny Toogood was charged with deceptive practices, a felony, and elder abuse, a misdemeanor, stemming from another alleged home-improvement scam in Whitefish, Mont. > > A Whitefish detective told Fox News that Toogood convinced an 83-year-old woman that her roof needed to be fixed and charged her $3,000 more than the market price. > > He then skipped town, but was tracked down through his cell phone and arrested in Wyoming on Aug. 12, 1999, where his wife posted a $20,000 bond for him, which he then jumped. That SUV? > [@](#): > > Fox News has learned that Madelyne Toogood recently had a 2000 Mercedes-Benz and a pickup truck registered in her name. The Toyota Sequoia SUV pictured in the surveillance videotape of the beating is registered to her brother-in-law. Irish Travellers & The BBB > [@](#): > > Madelyne Toogood has repeatedly characterized her husband as a reputable businessman. > > “My husband is in with the Better Business Bureau … and he still gets asked to leave places,” Madelyne Toogood said during a press conference Sunday. “They still look at him and think he’s up to something … he’s got 500 references … of jobs he has did. And still police will come in and say ‘you get outta here, we don’t want you people.’” ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2002, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777/80 "2002-10-01T18:37:44Z")
> [@](#): > > The men all drive brand-new Chevy trucks, mostly with wenches in the back . . . . LOL – Nothing adds fun to a pickup truck like a wench or two in the back. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-caught-on-tape-beating-her-daughter-not-for-the-squeamish/128777.md?page=5)