# Woman found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in text/ suicide case **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 16, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122 "2017-06-16T15:42:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/41 "2017-06-16T19:51:18Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > On the other hand, 12 normal people looking at her behavior are going to be so horrified that they’ll look for some way to punish her, regardless of the law. > > Yeah, you can hope for that one hold out and a hung jury, but that’s a big roll of the dice. Yes, she is one of the most hated people in Massachusetts right now. Almost any jury would be so disgusted with the (mountains of) evidence in this case that I doubt they would be able to follow the law well at all and she could have ended up even worse off. Her lawyers were right to advise her to just go with a judge and skip the jury. The real punishment is that she is infamous now in the Casey Anthony kind of way. She is never going to be able to get a reputable job and the only people that would go out with her are crazy as well. She did this partially because she wanted attention and friends for herself. She got the attention part but she isn’t getting any friends. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/42 "2017-06-16T20:12:18Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Suicide isn’t a criminal act. > **[Suicide legislation | United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_legislation#United_States)** > > In the United States of America, some topics are determined by federal law whereas others differ across states. The information on suicide prevention legislation will be discussed at the federal level first and will be followed by those states that have some form of legislation. > Historically, various states listed the act of suicide as a felony, but these policies were sparsely enforced. In the late 1960s, 18 U.S. states had no laws against suicide. By the late 1980s, 30 of the 50 states had no ... > [@](#): > > In some U.S. states, suicide is still considered an unwritten “common law crime,” as stated in Blackstone’s Commentaries. (So held the Virginia Supreme Court in 1992. Wackwitz v. Roy, 418 S.E.2d 861 (Va. 1992)). As a common law crime, suicide can bar recovery for the late suicidal person’s family in a lawsuit unless the suicidal person can be proven to have been “of unsound mind.” That is, the suicide must be proven to have been an involuntary act of the victim in order for the family to be awarded monetary damages by the court. ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/43 "2017-06-16T20:21:18Z")
[This link contains a video where the judge is reading his decision](https://www.yahoo.com/gma/judge-announce-verdict-today-texting-suicide-case-144606716--abc-news-topstories.html) One of the things he mentions is, once she heard him coughing, knowing he was dying, she did nothing to help him. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/44 "2017-06-16T20:21:39Z")
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if she ends up killing herself as well - not because of any guilt from what she did but because she is smart enough to know that her life is basically over anyway. That crazy bitch only lives a few minutes away from me. I don’t know what I am going to do if I run into her in a checkout line or something. It will probably be the same thing everyone else will do - look horrified as soon as they recognize her and then try to get away as quickly as possible. ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/45 "2017-06-16T20:24:37Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised at all if she ends up killing herself as well - not because of any guilt from what she did but because she is smart enough to know that her life is basically over anyway. That crazy bitch only lives a few minutes away from me. I don’t know what I am going to do if I run into her in a checkout line or something. It will probably be the same thing everyone else will do - look horrified as soon as they recognize her and then try to get away as quickly as possible. At least you get Wrentham as a buffer. I live in the same town as her. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/46 "2017-06-16T20:28:48Z")
> [@edwards\_beard](#): > > At least you get Wrentham as a buffer. I live in the same town as her. Welcome Plainville! That is a pretty small town to have such a high profile, nationally publicized case. I feel bad for the sane citizens that live there. It is a very nice place otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/47 "2017-06-16T20:35:30Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Welcome Plainville! That is a pretty small town to have such a high profile, nationally publicized case. I feel bad for the sane citizens that live there. It is a very nice place otherwise. Thanks! I’ve only been here for 15 years. I grew up next door in North Attleboro, which got name recognition with Mr Hernandez. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/48 "2017-06-16T20:53:55Z")
> [@edwards\_beard](#): > > Thanks! I’ve only been here for 15 years. I grew up next door in North Attleboro, which got name recognition with Mr Hernandez. Don’t feel bad. Aaron Hernandez was my next door neighbor in Franklin - not literally but he maintained a sin pad about 500 feet away from me in a condo complex. I didn’t know about it until the news trucks started rolling in after he was arrested for murder. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/49 "2017-06-16T20:58:33Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > No. But aiding and abetting one is, in most places. See the context in which I made that statement. > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > [Suicide legislation - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_legislation#United_States) > > In some U.S. states, suicide is still considered an unwritten “common law crime,” as stated in Blackstone’s Commentaries. (So held the Virginia Supreme Court in 1992. Wackwitz v. Roy, 418 S.E.2d 861 (Va. 1992)). As a common law crime, suicide can bar recovery for the late suicidal person’s family in a lawsuit unless the suicidal person can be proven to have been “of unsound mind.” That is, the suicide must be proven to have been an involuntary act of the victim in order for the family to be awarded monetary damages by the court. “Unwritten” and “common law crime.” The sentence directly before where you started quoting: > [@](#): > > By the early 1990s only two states still listed suicide as a crime, and these have since removed that classification. And from the link to “common law crime” in your quote: > [@](#): > > They are offences under the common law, developed entirely by the courts, and therefore have no specific bases in legislation. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/50 "2017-06-16T21:11:15Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Your views on culpability for convincing others to kill are duly noted, um, **manson**. That’s gotta go in your greatest hits collection! 😃 I could be wrong, but my understanding is the big issue here is her not getting help when she knew he was dying. But I think this person needs more mental help than punishment. I don’t see her as a threat to society, going forward. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/51 "2017-06-16T21:24:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s gotta go in your greatest hits collection! 😃 > > I could be wrong, but my understanding is the big issue here is her not getting help when she knew he was dying. But I think this person needs more mental help than punishment. I don’t see her as a threat to society, going forward. I don’t see why anyone _shouldn’t_ think she might do it again, in the unlikely event anybody gets close enough, and depressed enough, to let her. Not to say she shouldn’t get help. But her motivations for this aren’t the type that died with the victim, so I don’t see how you think she’s any less of a threat to society than your average person that’s talked somebody to death. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/52 "2017-06-16T21:26:03Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > You don’t know what it’s going to say until you read it. > > Suicide isn’t a criminal act. > [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > See the context in which I made that statement. > > “Unwritten” and “common law crime.” The sentence directly before where you started quoting: > > And from the link to “common law crime” in your quote: So you ignore the courts view on common law. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/53 "2017-06-16T21:39:14Z")
I haven’t followed this case, but is it possible that she felt that in light of his previous suicide attempts he was so miserable and not cut out for life in this world that she was only trying to help him to do what they had both come to feel he needed to do in order to escape the misery that was his life on this planet? I’m somewhat suspicious of the prosecutor’s contention that she was unpopular and wanted sympathy for being the surviving girlfriend. If anybody ever had the sort of pretty, well-groomed, cheerleader and teacher’s pet type of appearance that usually goes into being a popular girl in school, it would be her. I’ve been leery of prosecutors’ claims ever since Marcia Clark tried to claim O.J. Simpson’s knit cap was a ‘disguise’. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/54 "2017-06-16T21:43:58Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’m opposed to the verdict. As you prefer to take a contrarian view in things involving morality, this is not surprising. > [@](#): > > What this woman did was reprehensible, but I don’t think people should be criminally accountable for this type of thing. . Then you don’t actually think it is reprehensible. I cut out the rest, because you don’t actually make an argument for why this is the case. In fact, you contradict yourself right way by saying that you’d be okay with it if there was a law against it, meaning you don’t actually think people shouldn’t be criminally accountable. This woman preyed on a mentally unhealthy individual and took what might have been non-fatal and made it fatal. She is just as responsible as if she was actually there trying to put him back in the car so he’d die. She was an active participant in causing his death. The fact that she wasn’t physically there is irrelevant. If this woman is not declared criminally liable, then she would be able to kill more people. That’s why we have the system. Furthermore, other people would see this, and think they can prey on the mentally ill and get them to kill themselves. That’s also not acceptable. What this woman did was profoundly wrong, and society has ever reason to prevent this. We cannot have people preying on the suicidal and causing their deaths, preventing them from getting the help they need so that they likely won’t be suicidal anymore. What she did is reprehensible, and that is precisely why the law should provide criminal penalties for it. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/55 "2017-06-16T21:48:00Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > So you ignore the courts view on common law. Got it. I didn’t imply that I ignored anything. ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/56 "2017-06-16T21:53:39Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > According to a different article she was actually on the phone with with him encouraging him to stay in the truck when he died. This is on the link I posted too, there are a few links within the story . ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/57 "2017-06-16T22:01:21Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m somewhat suspicious of the prosecutor’s contention that she was unpopular and wanted sympathy for being the surviving girlfriend. If anybody ever had the sort of pretty, well-groomed, cheerleader and teacher’s pet type of appearance that usually goes into being a popular girl in school, it would be her. I’ve been leery of prosecutors’ claims ever since Marcia Clark tried to claim O.J. Simpson’s knit cap was a ‘disguise’. Don’t let looks fool you. She is pretty enough but that doesn’t have anything to do with it. People steered well clear of her because of her dysfunctional personality. Plainville, MA is an idyllic small town that is a suburb of both Boston and Providence, Rhode Island. It is almost impossible to grow up there and not have friends unless there is something seriously wrong with you. My best guess is that she is a true sociopath. Who listens to someone they care about dying on the phone and decides the major worry is how they will get in trouble themselves? That is only one of a few heinous things she did. ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/58 "2017-06-16T22:07:53Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised at all if she ends up killing herself as well - not because of any guilt from what she did but because she is smart enough to know that her life is basically over anyway. That crazy bitch only lives a few minutes away from me. I don’t know what I am going to do if I run into her in a checkout line or something. It will probably be the same thing everyone else will do - look horrified as soon as they recognize her and then try to get away as quickly as possible. I feel that she should be under a suicide watch b/c she has mental health issues too and this could push her over the edge . I doubt that she will wanting to go out in public a lot after being found guilty ,people will be pointing at her and talking about her . I don’t think she would be able to handle that kind of attention . She should of thought this before she send her b/f to his death ! ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/59 "2017-06-16T22:09:54Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > This woman preyed on a mentally unhealthy individual and took what might have been non-fatal and made it fatal. She is just as responsible as if she was actually there trying to put him back in the car so he’d die. She was an active participant in causing his death. The fact that she wasn’t physically there is irrelevant. I actually agree with you sometimes **BigT** and this is one of those times. Taking advantage of people under extreme mental duress is a crime in many situations already and certainly should be if you cause them to commit suicide. Anyone that has been in a situation like that should know it. You need someone to talk you down and not yell “Jump you pussy!” to encourage suicide when help is available. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122/60 "2017-06-16T22:49:16Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Don’t let looks fool you. She is pretty enough but that doesn’t have anything to do with it. People steered well clear of her because of her dysfunctional personality. Plainville, MA is an idyllic small town that is a suburb of both Boston and Providence, Rhode Island. It is almost impossible to grow up there and not have friends unless there is something seriously wrong with you. My best guess is that she is a true sociopath. Who listens to someone they care about dying on the phone and decides the major worry is how they will get in trouble themselves? That is only one of a few heinous things she did. Thanks. As I said, I haven’t been following this case and was unaware of the dysfunctional nature of her personality, and/or how it impacted on her social life. When I get time I’ll look into the it more closely. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-text-suicide-case/789122.md?page=4)