My brother-in-law has a niece that was totally on board with the santa thing way past 12, maybe even into 14. She may go her whole life without figuring it out. I wonder what happens when she has kids and she doesn’t get them any presents, expecting a fat guy to ferry some through her chimney.
It’s easy to say so now, but I think when I have kids I’m going to tell them that santa is just a little game as soon as they’re old enough to recognize the words I’m speaking. I know parents do it all the time, but these lies told to kids that are never addressed have got to be damaging in some way. “Figuring it out” isn’t just realizing that it’s silly for there to be a guy shuttling presents all over the planet, it’s also realizing that your parents lied to you for no reason, and then the livejournaling begins…
Unless I end up with a christian wife, I’ll probably be raising any kids I might produce atheist, with the understanding that religion is important to some people and to be considerate of that. Same should go for Santa. He’s just a character, but some of the kids in your class might think he’s, so just play along.
It’s not that big a leap, really. It’s more of an exaggeration for effect. If a guy leaves you during a pregnancy, it’s not that big a leap to think he did so because he didn’t want to have to take care of the kid. If this is not what the woman thinks, she likely would not have brought it up.
As for the OP: the basic problem seems to be the motivation of the teller: it seems he intended to hurt the mom (if not the kid, too) by saying she was a liar. This is classic in split-custody situations–try to turn the kid against the other parent.
Another question, which I suppose I never knew the answer to: what are Jewish(/other non-Christmas-celebrating) children typically told about Santa? “He isn’t real, but you shouldn’t tell that to any of your Christmas-celebrating friends”, I guess? Or are Jewish children typical vectors of the dissolution of the myth on elementary school playgrounds?
And, in concordance with the mention above, I am surprised anyone is able to keep this a secret from any but the youngest kids in the age of Google.
I’d say we know next to nothing about the dad’s interaction with the kid, other than a second-hand quote from the kid to mom: “Papa told me Santa doesn’t exist.” Keep in mind the kid’s 8 years old, and we don’t know how the actual conversation went. Any motivations attributed to dad come more from the attributor, IMHO.
I don’t think we can hang the dad out to dry based on the minimal info given by the mom.
As an aside, I worked it out for myself, shortly after turning 6, that Santa didn’t exist.
I must admit I’m at a loss to come up with any other reason to tell your kid that Santa doesn’t exist. The only way I could see this guy being in the clear is if he didn’t know the mother was telling the kid it was true (which I find unlikely). Otherwise, saying “it’s a lie parents tell their children” is clearly implicating the mother.
I can imagine any number of innocent scenarios. E.g., the kid confronts his father skeptically, and the father eventually breaks down and says “Yeah, you’re right, but you shouldn’t spoil it for other kids”, etc., etc. Then the kid comes home and relates it to the mom as “Dad let me know Santa is make-believe”, and then the mom writes off her letter, and we end up here. Or perhaps something different. We just don’t know.
And who says they’re never addressed? Who says that ‘pretend’ is the same as lying? My oldest did figure it out, then asked me for verification. And then jumped wholeheartedly into the other side of the equation, pleased as punch to be able to help play Santa for his younger sisters. At some point they sorted it out, too, and now they all kind of wink, wink at it. No harm done, no big deal, and not feeling that parents lied to them. Just ongoing sharing of a Christmas tradition.
Back to the subject of the thread, let’s not vilify the dad here too much. All we know is that he told the kid that Santa isn’t real. We don’t know how or why. And all we know of their history is that the parents split up before son was born. It doesn’t say Dad left, or ran screaming into the night, or anything like that. It might have been a mutual decision, or it might even have been initiated by Mom.
As for how old is too old to believe in Santa? I don’t really know. My son was eight when he figured it out. The son of a friend was older than that and finally had to have some hints dropped by his parents. Some kids are much younger. I don’t really think there is a standard. And I really don’t think it matters too much, although I think I’d try not to let a kid get old enough that it would be embarrassing if they mentioned it to friends. I think most of them get it by about third grade at the latest. So this little boy was probably on the cusp. I wonder if Mom wasn’t trying to hold onto it more than the child was.
If I hadn’t known already, I would have been told in school at 8. The kids from grades 3-6 had to make the presents for the younger kids; before we started making them it was made quite clear that “now we all know sinterklaas* doesn’t exist…”
*this is in the netherlands, but sinterklaas is pretty much the same as santa claus (quite literally)
I’d say that 8 is a little bit old for believing, but I’d also say it’s a whole lot young for people to think that the kid needs to grow the hell up and face reality. What exactly is wrong with letting an eight year old be a kid?
And can I say that I have never, in my entire life, other than here, encountered people who were deeply traumatized by the fact that their parents “lied” to them about Santa? Maybe one of the reasons your parents were so unwilling to burst your bubbles was that they’d noticed your extraordinary emotional fragility. :dubious:
I’d say 1 is too old for believing, personally. Sure, its harmless, but its also pointless. There is plenty of awesome stuff in the world to believe in. No need to feed the kid lies, even if it is harmless, and I see no reason for not being honest and forthright from the get go.
Because they ask? Eight is PLENTY old to start asking questions about Santa - my kids started at four - and knew the truth at six and seven. As QtM said, we don’t know the circumstances for revealing the truth - it could have been a conversation that started with the “Mall Santa” question. It could have been the “how does Santa get down the chimney when there isn’t one?” question. It could have been one of a zillion holiday movies that implies Santa might not be “real.”
Its possible that Dad just decided to pop the kid’s bubble with no motivator. In my experience as a parent, its more likely a conversation that you didn’t have complete control over. And, yeah, the whole “its a lie parents tell their children” can come up even when parents with a lot of practice have that conversation with their kids and loose control over it.
It is a lie parents tell their children. It’s usually not a malicious lie, nor is it a particularly serious lie, but it is a lie. If mom is worried about losing his trust she needs to man up and come clean, not keep lying.
I’d say the mother is the one that needs to grow the hell up. It’s not the kid’s fault that she believes what her mother says.
How does knowing that Mom and Dad give you presents go against being a kid? I don’t recall being disappointed at birthdays because there wasn’t some imaginary flying fat man involved.
If the parents were together and not separated in a hostile relationship, they would be handling this is a unified way with the kid. This is just one of a billion opportunities (missed, in this case) for them to still act in a unified way as parents although they are not in a relationship with each other. Let’s hope they figure that out for situations where the stakes are higher.
Yes, even when parents are united, actually calling it a lie (instead of - say - a complex game of pretend) when talking to your young children might not be the best approach. And when the parents are not together, outright stating “Mommy lies to you” is impolitic.
Now, I’m not a parent (although my brother and friends are, so I’ve spent lots of time with small children), but are you suggesting total honesty with small children as an approach to child rearing? Because I can’t imagine that working very well.