# Woman given notice of trespassing, for using restroom at Emory University Hospital. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 18, 2017, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896 "2017-05-18T04:44:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2017, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/41 "2017-05-21T01:47:32Z")
My father was a patient at a private hospital. He died. We went in to discuss the arrangements for the body. At about that time, my godfather called the hospital to see how my father was, and was told that he was “No longer a patient.” Were we trespassing when we used the restroom? ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2017, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/42 "2017-05-21T01:48:50Z")
> [@](#): > > IME guest badges are commonly required to access patient floors and treatment areas Not disputing that this is true where you are, but it has not been true anywhere I’ve been a patient, visitor, or staff. Similarly, I’ve seen some ground floor cafeterias, but none in basements. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/43 "2017-05-21T21:48:52Z")
> [@susan](#): > > Not disputing that this is true where you are, but it has not been true anywhere I’ve been a patient, visitor, or staff. Similarly, I’ve seen some ground floor cafeterias, but none in basements. Poor choice of words on my part. I didn’t mean an actual cellar or basement, rather simply the lower level (usually marked “LL” on elevator buttons). I’ve never seen a hospital yet that didn’t have at least one “LL”, which usually turns out to be a warren of corridors that seem to go on and on, and often do, since they may connect separate wings or buildings. (This makes it easier for visitors to get lost and wander around.) And for some reason, every hospital cafeteria I’ve seen has been one floor below the main level. I have no idea why that is, though it does seem to gibe with my general expectation that cafeterias don’t have windows. BTW…aren’t the kitchens usually on this level as well? ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2017, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/44 "2017-05-21T23:21:27Z")
> [@susan](#): > > Not disputing that this is true where you are, but it has not been true anywhere I’ve been a patient, visitor, or staff. Similarly, I’ve seen some ground floor cafeterias, but none in basements. Ever been to a city hospital? I know of a few that you can’t get past the lobby area unless you show photo ID (for which I think you have to state where you’re going - patient room or appointment with an employee) & go thru a metal detector. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2017, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/45 "2017-05-21T23:29:48Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Ever been to a city hospital? I know of a few that you can’t get past the lobby area unless you show photo ID (for which I think you have to state where you’re going - patient room or appointment with an employee) & go thru a metal detector. You are joking right? Little Rock is a big Metro area, with half a million. I’ve been in three of the major hospitals and never encountered anything like that. I do see security. I’ve never interacted with any of them. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2017, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/46 "2017-05-21T23:38:53Z")
> [@susan](#): > > Not disputing that this is true where you are, but it has not been true anywhere I’ve been a patient, visitor, or staff. Similarly, I’ve seen some ground floor cafeterias, but none in basements. My old hospital had a basement cafeteria. Badges would most likely be necessary in OB, or another potentially sensitive unit like inpatient psychiatry. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/47 "2017-05-21T23:54:03Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Little Rock is a big Metro area, with half a million. You are joking, right? Half a million people is a _big_ Metro area? I don’t consider a metro area to be big until it hits at least 3 million people. 1 million for a moderately sized metropolitan community, minimum. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/48 "2017-05-22T03:25:19Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Oh, and, while I said what I said about homeless people sleeping there, I absolutely do not support treating homeless people differently, let alone people who you think are “riff-raff.” And, if you don’t provide public restrooms within walking distance, then I think you should need to allow people, even homeless people, to use restrooms of places open to the public. > > A hospital should be even better about this than a local business. Because, if they can’t, then you’re gonna have defecating on the street–a health hazard. That part of Atlanta has an enormous problem with homeless people - panhandling, shoplifting, drug-dealing, harassing others. Every establishment guards their bathrooms because paying customers are entitled to use the facilities without harassment. That area of town also has numerous homeless shelters and aid centers located in a dense area around the hospital. There’s no cause to expect private establishments to open their doors to non-customers. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/49 "2017-05-22T03:34:26Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I lost a lot of respect for the CEO of a local hospital system when I met him and his wife at a Christmas party, and she told me that when they sold their previous house to move here, they were $140,000 underwater on the mortgage and she talked about it like it was pocket change. :rolleyes: > > There has to be more to this story; truthfully, I wonder if she was causing some kind of trouble that hasn’t been discussed yet. :dubious: I was thinking the same thing. There’s got to be more to the story. And the very likely “…and now you know…the rest of the story…” is that she wasn’t white. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/50 "2017-05-22T06:36:03Z")
> [@susan](#): > > Not disputing that this is true where you are, but it has not been true anywhere I’ve been a patient, visitor, or staff. Similarly, I’ve seen some ground floor cafeterias, but none in basements. It’s not a badge, per se, but right now I’m wearing a wrist band that Security issued to me this afternoon, to allow me access to the cardiac care unit so I can visit **kaylasmom** (I’m still wearing it so the guard will wave me through on my next visit). And the hospital has its visitors cafeteria on a floor below street level. The elevator buttons for reaching that floor are marked “B.” ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/51 "2017-05-22T13:21:35Z")
I’ve been in a lot of hospitals. The first ID tags I saw were only about 5 years ago. I was working in many of them and had access to secure areas via digital codes and occasionally had to sign in. I’m surprised how easily it is to get access to any area of most hospitals, visiting a friend in the hospital recently there was no security at all, no one at a check in area, no security personnel that I saw, an seemingly no restrictions on access to any area though I assume some doors were locked. There are legitimate security concerns at hospitals and even though I may have been to at least 50 different hospitals that certainly doesn’t cover the country and the variety of security measures that may be in place. I think it’s it a good idea to require more security, mainly not allowing entry at all without checking in near the entrance. None of that excuses the alleged behavior of this hospital. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/52 "2017-05-22T14:54:45Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I was thinking the same thing. There’s got to be more to the story. And the very likely “…and now you know…the rest of the story…” is that she wasn’t white. Profiling by appearance anyway, even not exclusively racial, which does not mean that race did play a factor. Let’s give some possible background (which in no way is presented as an excuse for the security guard’s behavior or any possible hospital policy regarding use of their restrooms by any of the public). 1. In many urban centers public restrooms, including hospital bathrooms, are [used by street addicts](http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/05/08/526523520/public-restrooms-become-ground-zero-in-the-opioid-epidemic) as places to shoot up. > [@NPR](#): > > **Public Restrooms Become Ground Zero In The Opioid Epidemic** … Massachusetts General Hospital began training security guards after emergency room physician Dr. Ali Raja realized that the hospital’s bathrooms had become a safe haven for some of his overdose patients. > > “There’s an understanding that if you overdose in and around a hospital that you’re much more likely to be able to be treated,” Raja says, “and so we’re finding patients in our restrooms, we’re finding patients in our lobbies who are shooting up or taking their prescription pain medications.” > > Many businesses, including hospitals and clinics, don’t want to talk about overdoses within their buildings. Curran wants to be sure the hospital’s message about drug use is clear. > > “We don’t want to promote, obviously, people coming here and using it, but if it’s going to happen, then we’d like to be prepared to help them and save them and get them to the [Emergency Department] as fast as possible,” Curran says. 1. There is a [homeless shelter (the Peachtree-Pine homeless shelter)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peachtree-Pine_shelter) apparently across the street from the hospital and the hospital and the shelter have a history of not playing well together. > [@](#): > > Almost since its opening in 1997, neighbors and neighborhood organizations have complained [4] about unsanitary conditions, loitering, drug sales, and violent crimes [5][6][7] in the immediate vicinity of the shelter, to a degree far more intense than occurs around other shelters in the city, blaming poor management of Peachtree-Pine as the root cause.[2] The shelter has also been the site of Tuberculosis outbreaks.[8] In 2014, Mayor Kasim Reed declared that "Peachtree-Pine is awful. It has **rampant drug sales** , and it poses a serious risk to the health of people in the City of Atlanta”.[9] The Task Force, on the other hand, has filed multiple lawsuits accusing the city officials, downtown business organizations, and Emory University (which operates a hospital across from the shelter) of having conspired to dry up its funding sources and force it out of business through Tortious interference, Defamation and other illegal means. (Bolding mine.) With that as background it is easy to imagine that security may be wanting to keep the homeless who frequent the shelter from using their facilities, inclusive of not wanting their bathrooms being used as places to shoot up, with needles possibly left behind, telling those who do try to use their bathrooms that they are trespassing on private property. It is also possible that the story of “my family member _was_ here … must’ve been discharged …” is something that the security guard has heard many times a day. And it is possible, perhaps probable, that the security guard assessed this woman as one of that population, profiling by appearance (perhaps impacted by racial appearance, but likely not exclusively so). And yes many hospitals have visitors check in and wear a guest badge, but not all do, and most newer hospitals have security badges for staff that open doors to areas they have justifiable access to (and not others) - although of course someone who looks like they belong (a stethoscope draped around the neck is enough) can drift in easily, even getting others holding the door for them out of manners. Older hospitals often have cafeterias on a lower level. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/53 "2017-05-22T15:31:12Z")
(Forgot a “not”: “Profiling by appearance anyway, even not exclusively racial, which does not mean that race did _not_ play a factor.”) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/54 "2017-05-22T20:44:36Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > That part of Atlanta has an enormous problem with homeless people - panhandling, shoplifting, drug-dealing, harassing others. Every establishment guards their bathrooms because paying customers are entitled to use the facilities without harassment. > > That area of town also has numerous homeless shelters and aid centers located in a dense area around the hospital. There’s no cause to expect private establishments to open their doors to non-customers. I wasn’t aware things had gotten this bad. Another new low for our declining society. At least now I’ll understand the reasoning if Little Rock’s Med Center (UAMS) begins these policies. It’s in a rough part of the city. Not as bad as Atlanta. But I wouldn’t walk through those neighborhoods even during the day. Except for the streets directly next to the Med Center. Medical Students and Interns rent those houses. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/55 "2017-05-22T23:10:13Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I wasn’t aware things had gotten this bad. > > Another new low for our declining society. Keep in mind that the US is safer now than at any other time in history. [http://nextstageprep.com/despite-media-hysteria-violent-crime-is-at-record-lows/](http://nextstageprep.com/despite-media-hysteria-violent-crime-is-at-record-lows/) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/56 "2017-05-23T01:35:36Z")
Homeless, even heroin injecting homeless ≠ violent. You may not want them in your properties’ bathrooms, they may make others uncomfortable, but really they are not so fearsome. Violence is down, even overall homelessness rates have been dropping, it’s even [down within Atlanta](http://www.atlantaga.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=24072) (“since 2011, there has been a 60% decrease in unsheltered homelessness in Atlanta”), but it can be concentrated. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/57 "2017-05-23T04:19:26Z")
Yeah, it’s not exactly Mad Max down there. I have no problem walking the area as late as 8PM. But it’s not great when you try to use a restroom and someone’s sleeping or smoking crack in there, and they leave 5 days worth of stink behind them. And I never, never go into the library down there… a big smelly loitering hotspot. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/58 "2017-05-23T22:24:31Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I wasn’t aware things had gotten this bad. > > Another new low for our declining society. > > At least now I’ll understand the reasoning if Little Rock’s Med Center (UAMS) begins these policies. It’s in a rough part of the city. Not as bad as Atlanta. But I wouldn’t walk through those neighborhoods even during the day. Except for the streets directly next to the Med Center. Medical Students and Interns rent those houses. I used to work with a ARNP who got her degree at the Medical College of Georgia in Augusta, and at the time, the area around the hospital was the most dangerous one in town, because there was a gang whose initiates had to kill someone - and doctors and nurses leaving the hospital in uniform were their favorite targets. :eek: :mad: Several employees died this way while she was there. And she got her degree in 1972. :eek: As for “there’s more to the story”, yes, part of it was that she was nonwhite (i.e. black) and I guessed that from the outset; however, I also suspected that she started acting belligerent or otherwise disruptive and the guard took action, whether her pregnancy was obvious or not. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/59 "2017-05-23T23:20:29Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Homeless, even heroin injecting homeless ≠ violent. Yeah heroin addicts basically just sleep. All the time. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896/60 "2017-05-24T01:12:07Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > As for “there’s more to the story”, yes, part of it was that she was nonwhite (i.e. black) and I guessed that from the outset; however, I also suspected that she started acting belligerent or otherwise disruptive and the guard took action, whether her pregnancy was obvious or not. I doubt she did anything to deserve that treatment except to be black in an place that gets frequented by a mostly black homeless population. I used to live in that area and I can tell you it’s a difficult situation. I got in the habit of ignoring every single person who said “excuse me sir” because it was almost always a pitch for spare change. Did I profile people unfairly? Probably, and I feel bad about it, but I don’t have the time or energy to sort out one legit person from 20 scammers. I’m sure the guard absolutely could have done a better job, race was probably involved, and there may have been some miscommunication. But I can also definitely understand how a person can get desensitized to the endless stream of contrived hard-luck stories. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-given-notice-of-trespassing-for-using-restroom-at-emory-university-hospital/786896.md?page=4)