# Woman in coma gives birth **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 7, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356 "2019-01-07T14:58:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/41 "2019-01-07T21:51:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > While suspecting male staff is a logical thing, it doesn’t have to be staff. It could be a frequent male _visitor_, perhaps someone visiting another patient who goes where he shouldn’t. Or even a one-time creep who got in, maybe with the intent to steal stuff, and took advantage of someone who couldn’t speak or fight back. Exactly. It could have been a visitor or family member, another patient or a visitor of another patient, a vendor like a flower delivery boy, or someone who walked in off the street. I don’t know about you, but I have been a visitor in a hospital (not THIS hospital, mind you) about a dozen times and have never once been asked to state my purpose or produce an ID. Once, I was asked who I was visiting at the front desk, and was given a temporary visitor’s badge. Again, I did not present an ID. I have also worked as an IT sub-contractor and walked the halls of Cedars-Sinai in Los Angeles. I wore a temp ID badge that did not have my name on it and was never questioned. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/42 "2019-01-07T22:08:31Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > _Law & Order_ had a storyline like this. Turned out the victim’s mother wanted a grandchild and paid some dude to knock-up her daughter. Lots of legal highjinks ensued. Not quite, IIRC. Her doctor impregnated her to get stem cells to help his wealthy patient, who had Parkinson’s. The mother wanted to keep the baby because it was her grandchild and she was herself against abortion. I think this was an SVU episode. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/43 "2019-01-07T23:15:00Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Exactly. It could have been a visitor or family member, another patient or a visitor of another patient, a vendor like a flower delivery boy, or someone who walked in off the street. Sure, but DNA testing of the staff would eliminate them as suspects, so they could check logs for the time when this could have happened. You’d also think it would be done by someone familiar with the place, since your random delivery boy wouldn’t know that he wouldn’t get walked in on. I’d also think that the rape might have happened more than once, since she did get pregnant. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/44 "2019-01-07T23:46:14Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Not quite, IIRC. Her doctor impregnated her to get stem cells to help his wealthy patient, who had Parkinson’s. The mother wanted to keep the baby because it was her grandchild and she was herself against abortion. I think this was an SVU episode. **Gatopescado** is correct. In the L&O episode, the parents paid an orderly to impregnate the daughter in the coma. It was about getting the grandchild. The orderly bought a Harley, then got the snot beaten out of him by brothers of a different patient who they _thought_ he raped but did not. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/45 "2019-01-07T23:54:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I couldn’t sit there and watch silently as a comatose woman was raped…but then again I’m not God, thank ghod. One of the many reasons why I’m atheist and deny the existence of any of the Abrahamic gods. As far as testing the male staff’s DNA, they had better come with a court order. I’m not interested in any spiel stating “this will eliminate you as a suspect.” ETA: To be clear, I am NOT a rapist, nor do I think rapist should get a pass. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/46 "2019-01-08T00:19:15Z")
I’ve a hunch that, as the story develops, one obvious suspect will emerge, with enough probable cause that the police will be able to get a warrant for his DNA. That said, a legal hypothetical: Suppose that it were possible to narrow down the list of possible suspects to a finite and manageable number. And suppose that all but one of those men voluntarily offered a DNA sample to the police, and that all of those samples were verified as not being the father. Could that fact be used as evidence against the last suspect? ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/47 "2019-01-08T00:58:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’ve a hunch that, as the story develops, one obvious suspect will emerge, with enough probable cause that the police will be able to get a warrant for his DNA. > > That said, a legal hypothetical: Suppose that it were possible to narrow down the list of possible suspects to a finite and manageable number. And suppose that all but one of those men voluntarily offered a DNA sample to the police, and that all of those samples were verified as not being the father. Could that fact be used as evidence against the last suspect? Then the suspect better move to an area where burning your garbage is legal & never eat out or throw anything in a [public trashcan](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/26/us/golden-state-killer.html?module=inline). > [@NYTimes](#): > > Investigators then obtained what Anne Marie Schubert, the Sacramento district attorney, called “abandoned” DNA samples from Mr. DeAngelo. “You leave your DNA in a place that is a public domain,” she said. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/48 "2019-01-08T01:04:31Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > This has happened before back in the 90s. There was also a crime like this here in Rochester in 1995. This raises the very disturbing question of how many comatose women are being victimized. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/49 "2019-01-08T01:15:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’ve a hunch that, as the story develops, one obvious suspect will emerge, with enough probable cause that the police will be able to get a warrant for his DNA. > > That said, a legal hypothetical: Suppose that it were possible to narrow down the list of possible suspects to a finite and manageable number. And suppose that all but one of those men voluntarily offered a DNA sample to the police, and that all of those samples were verified as not being the father. Could that fact be used as evidence against the last suspect? If all but one possible suspects can be ruled out, a judge would probably find probable cause for a search warrant to take a DNA sample. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/50 "2019-01-08T01:22:40Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I understand that, after being hospitalized due to a fall which rendered him comatose, Dr. Atkins (of the Atkins Diet fame), ballooned up to a state of obesity before he died. > > So the phenomenon is not unheard of (the phenomenon of comatose people getting larger, not of men getting pregnant). Dr. Atkins’ massive weight gain in his last days was due to a phenomenon called third-spacing, where bodily fluids leak from the capillaries and even cell walls; the person becomes edematous and dehydrated at the same time. A relatively recent example that got in the news a few years ago involved the Ebola patients who were treated in the U.S. and Europe; many of them GAINED as much as 50 pounds over baseline, despite massive diarrhea and/or vomiting, and that’s how it happened. One of them was so “puffy”, IV access had to be obtained in their tibias, where there’s a large marrow chamber just underneath the surface, and that’s every bit as painful as it sounds. :eek: Apparently it’s used quite a bit in critically ill babies and small children; I never personally saw an order for it. I, too wonder what kind of “nursing home” she was in, for her caregivers not to notice that she was pregnant? For one thing, didn’t she have menstrual cycles, and didn’t anyone notice that she wasn’t having them any more? Some of us on another board also wondered if the perpetrator might not be someone who works there - because it was ANOTHER CLIENT. ☹ This is not uncommon in senior-oriented nursing homes or homes for people with traumatic brain injuries, due to the loss of inhibitions, or MR/DD facilities as well. It could also have been a contract employee, a relative of a visitor, etc. In any case, this person needs to be caught and sent to prison. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/51 "2019-01-08T01:23:33Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > I would certainly think/hope so. > > Frankly, for as bad as the situation is, the resolution is pretty straightforward. You would greatly assume it was someone who worked at the hospital, so you can look back at schedules/time punches for roughly 9 months ago, DNA test the baby and against any males working…and boom. And how is that consistent with the warrant requirement of the 4th Amendment? ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/52 "2019-01-08T01:28:35Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Well, it sure ain’t good, it sure ain’t right, and the perpetrator needs to be held accountable and punished. But (and not to minimize its horror) it’s far from among the worst things I’ve ever seen, sadly enough. Ok, but to be fair you work in a prison. Your horribleness bar is high. For me, this story’s breathtaking in its awfulness. She was potentially exposed to STDs by her rapist, there’s no telling how often he raped her, and there’s no telling if she was aware of being assaulted. Her family must be shattered by this. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/53 "2019-01-08T01:36:58Z")
I also wonder if the patient ever went out on passes. There was a comparable story a while back about a disabled woman who did get pregnant (and the condition was not discovered until it was too late for an abortion). Her sister would bring her home a few times a month, usually for a weekend, and in the end, it turned out that her husband had done this! :mad: The healthy sister adopted the baby, and the husband went to prison. There are all sorts of degrees of coma; people in them range from those who are brain-dead on life support, to people who are partially conscious and in some cases can even walk and/or speak. There’s also locked-in syndrome, where people are completely aware of their surroundings and similarly unable to care for themselves. The wonderful book and movie “The Diving Bell and the Butterfly” are by and about someone who became this way after a stroke. > **[The Diving Bell and the Butterfly: A Memoir of Life in Death: Jean-Dominique...](https://www.amazon.com/Diving-Bell-Butterfly-Memoir-Death/dp/0375701214)** > > The Diving Bell and the Butterfly: A Memoir of Life in Death \[Jean-Dominique Bauby, Jeremy Leggatt\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. The Diving Bell and the Butterfly: A Memoir of Life in Death It’s measured via the Glasgow Coma Scale. > **[The Glasgow structured approach to assessment of the Glasgow Coma Scale](https://www.glasgowcomascale.org/)** > > The Glasgow Coma Scale was described in 1974 by Graham Teasdale and Bryan Jennett as a way to communicate about the level of consciousness of patients with an acute brain injury. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/54 "2019-01-08T01:44:21Z")
This link is much simpler. > **[Glasgow Coma Scale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Coma_Scale)** > > The Glasgow Coma Scale (GCS) is a clinical scale used to reliably measure a person's level of consciousness after a brain injury. > The GCS assesses a person based on their ability to perform eye movements, speak, and move their body. These three behaviours make up the three elements of the scale: eye, verbal, and motor. A person's GCS score can range from 3 (completely unresponsive) to 15 (responsive). This score is used to guide immediate medical care after a brain injury (such as a car accide... ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/55 "2019-01-08T01:51:43Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Ok, but to be fair you work in a prison. Your horribleness bar is high. I could have said the same thing before working in a prison. I’ve worked in a Children’s hospital ER, along with STD clinics too. ☹ As for not picking up a pregnancy: I’ve done obstetrics and taken care of nursing home patients who were vegetative. The latter don’t get routine abdominal exams or gyn exams, especially if in a comatose/vegetative state and emphasis is on care and comfort, not diagnosis and treatment. So pregnancy would not routinely be noted, frankly. And I’ve seen pregnant women who didn’t show it at all, even at term. Not morbidly obese ones either, but ones with enough adipose tissue and loose skin, to easily cover the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/56 "2019-01-08T01:57:57Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Sure, but DNA testing of the staff would eliminate them as suspects, so they could check logs for the time when this could have happened. > You’d also think it would be done by someone familiar with the place, since your random delivery boy wouldn’t know that he wouldn’t get walked in on. I’d also think that the rape might have happened more than once, since she did get pregnant. It doesn’t take that long to rape someone, and it only needs to happen once for pregnancy to occur. Granted, it’s more likely it’s someone who have more access than a brief time period just once, but it’s not impossible for it to have been a one time thing. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/57 "2019-01-08T01:58:21Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Sure, but DNA testing of the staff would eliminate them as suspects, so they could check logs for the time when this could have happened. > You’d also think it would be done by someone familiar with the place, since your random delivery boy wouldn’t know that he wouldn’t get walked in on. I’d also think that the rape might have happened more than once, since she did get pregnant. The time it could have happened would be any time in a four to six week block, roughly nine months before the birth. There might be records of who worked a shift within that time, and maybe a list of common deliveries and regular visitors. But I doubt there’s an easy list of everyone who might have been there within the time window. And no one is going to remember a random stranger after this length of time. Also, some people like the thrill of doing something that they might be caught at. Even dismissing that, it wouldn’t take many deliveries to get a feel for a place, especially if the deliveries were during shifts with low staffing levels. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/58 "2019-01-08T03:04:35Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > It doesn’t take that long to rape someone, and it only needs to happen once for pregnancy to occur. > > Granted, it’s more likely it’s someone who have more access than a brief time period just once, but it’s not impossible for it to have been a one time thing. Sure, it’s not impossible, but staff and regular visitors are a better bet. If you can eliminate them, then you can start looking for delivery people. Alas, no camera record and probably not very good security. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/59 "2019-01-08T03:17:08Z")
Rape and abuse happens frequently to the elderly in nursing homes, and even if they can report it, the nursing homes often don’t report to the police, and often say the person was delusional, or doesn’t understand whet they were saying. [CNN expose](https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/02/health/nursing-home-sex-abuse-investigation/) I fear old age. StG ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356/60 "2019-01-08T04:24:16Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > **Gatopescado** is correct. Just wanted to quote this as it happens so infrequently. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-in-coma-gives-birth/827356.md?page=4)