# Woman offended by truthful advice from doctor **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 24, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435 "2005-08-24T15:54:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/168 "2005-08-26T21:14:44Z")
> [@jeprah](#): > > To point out that, contrary to your assertion, people probably DO see you as a huge mound of blubber. And to get you to aim for 130 instead, which is an absolute MAXIMUM for a 5’7" woman not to be fat. (I know this guy was banned, but just for anyone listening) I’m 5/3, I weigh about 130. I was told that my ideal weight is somewhere around 120-135, and 115 is the absolute minimum. I’m trying to get down to 120, or at least, not go above 130. And I am so NOT fat. (just out of shape-I have no muscle definition or tone). Jesus, people have no concept of numbers. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/169 "2005-08-26T22:59:09Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > You can also live quite a long time without overeating. Clearly the comparison between smoking and being overweight is uncomfortable for the overweight folks. Perhaps it’s because they enjoy ridiculing how stinky smokers are in any and all smoking threads, and don’t want to lose the moral high-ground. And guess what? Drop off both a smoker and a fattie on a desert island, and they’ll _both_ get healthier. The labor-intensive diet of foraging and fishing will cause the pounds to melt off by the dozens. It is quite an apt comparison. Unless you meant that a fattie will die without ample supply of Krispy Kreme and KFC? ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/170 "2005-08-26T23:01:51Z")
xbuckeye, I have a question for you here: > **[Hey, xbuckeye, can we talk a minute?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=331995)** > > In this(http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=331648&page=4) thread, you said (the “you” in the quotation refers to a banned poster) Here’s the post from the thread: Quote: Originally Posted by xbuckeye In your rush to... Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/779978/32.png) [@Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amazon_Floozy_Goddess)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/171 "2005-08-27T02:21:19Z")
Ok, those who are using “fattie” in an insulting manner, grow the fuck up already. If anyone around here maliciously referred to an amputee as a “one-armed/legged freak”, or a Chinese person as a “Chink”, they’d have been bitchslapped by the mods already. There is so much hatred for overweight people in this thread, it’s disgusting. Not to mention totally unwarranted. Fat-bashers, you don’t have to live in anyone else’s body but your own. So it’s none of your fucking business how much somebody else weighs. If you can’t understand that simple a concept, then you are more ignorant and stupid than you already appear. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/172 "2005-08-27T02:35:16Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Clearly the comparison between smoking and being overweight is uncomfortable for the overweight folks. Perhaps it’s because they enjoy ridiculing how stinky smokers are in any and all smoking threads, and don’t want to lose the moral high-ground. We can take the comparison even further. People are always complaining about how smokers are raising everyone else’s health care costs. Couldn’t the same thing be said about fat people? Not that this is my view, I just want to show that it’s a perfectly valid comparision. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/173 "2005-08-27T03:05:28Z")
> [@Amazon Floozy Goddess](#): > > If anyone around here maliciously referred to an amputee as a “one-armed/legged freak”, or a Chinese person as a “Chink”, they’d have been bitchslapped by the mods already. I agree that “fattie” is a nasty perjorative and I wouldn’t use it myself, but you simply can’t compare being fat with being Chinese or being an amputee. With the rare exception of amputee fetishists, people don’t choose to be Chinese or an amputee, and they can’t change themselves if they are. The same can’t be said for the overwhelming majority of overweight people. > [@](#): > > There is so much hatred for overweight people in this thread, it’s disgusting. Except for the now-banned trolls, I don’t see any hatred of overweight people. ---
**Author:** ![Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/779978/32.png) [@Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amazon_Floozy_Goddess)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/174 "2005-08-27T03:18:09Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > I agree that “fattie” is a nasty perjorative and I wouldn’t use it myself, but you simply can’t compare being fat with being Chinese or being an amputee. With the rare exception of amputee fetishists, people don’t choose to be Chinese or an amputee, and they can’t change themselves if they are. The same can’t be said for the overwhelming majority of overweight people. > > Except for the now-banned trolls, I don’t see any hatred of overweight people. You could then compare being fat with being a smoker, as was mentioned earlier. Whether to smoke or not to smoke is something someone can change. I’m sure not too many smokers would appreciate being called inconsiderate, stinking, filthy, candidates for cancer, etc, etc. It’s plain malicious, infantile and discriminatory, any way you slice it. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/175 "2005-08-27T03:26:30Z")
> [@Amazon Floozy Goddess](#): > > I’m sure not too many smokers would appreciate being called inconsiderate, stinking, filthy, candidates for cancer, etc, etc. We don’t, but we are. You could review any number of the threads about smoking. > [@](#): > > It’s plain malicious, infantile and discriminatory, any way you slice it. Absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/176 "2005-08-27T03:51:19Z")
As a smoker though, I do feel bad for overweight people. See, if I don’t feel like putting up with the snide comments, I can just go to that party and not smoke for a couple hours, and no one will be the wiser. An overweight person… well you get the idea. Also, on the day I decide to finally quit cold turkey, I will at that moment, become a non-smoker. An overweight person will still be overweight every single day, of every single month, of every single year it takes them to lose the weight. That’s gotta really suck when you’ve been struggling to lose those 30 pounds it took you six months to lose, and someone you haven’t seen in a long time says “OMG, you’ve gained so much weight!” ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/177 "2005-08-27T04:50:10Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > \Except for the now-banned trolls, I don’t see any hatred of overweight people. You’re not looking very hard then. Maybe hatred isn’t the right word; how about derision? Or maybe scorn? Condescension? Belittling? As for the weight numbers, I’m 5’6", and at 130 pounds, I would look like a concentration camp victim. Sure I’ve got fat on me, but I’ve got muscle, too. Just ask my husband when we go for a walk and he can’t keep up with me, or when I go out and shovel dirt in the back yard for a couple of hours. When I was a starving student one summer, I got down to around 150 due to not enough money for food, and it was too low for my frame. I looked too thin. At 160, my goal weight, I look good - strong and healthy, with lots of curves. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/178 "2005-08-27T05:00:57Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > You’re not looking very hard then. Maybe hatred isn’t the right word; how about derision? Or maybe scorn? Condescension? Belittling? Or maybe it’s just impatience with the excuse making and the martyrdom. Fatness is voluntary, it’s not the same as skin color or sexual orientation or any of the other fixed traits that some fat people disingenuously try to compare their fatness to. ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/179 "2005-08-27T06:20:17Z")
Did you read page 2, where I gave cites that 70 to 80 million people (i.e., not rare) people are estimated to have insulin resistance? Did you also see the cites (and QtM’s excellent posts) which establish that insulin resistance makes weight loss difficult? Just wondering, because that would argue against the whole voluntary notion. ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/180 "2005-08-27T11:03:44Z")
> [@Brynda](#): > > Did you read page 2, where I gave cites that 70 to 80 million people (i.e., not rare) people are estimated to have insulin resistance? Did you also see the cites (and QtM’s excellent posts) which establish that insulin resistance makes weight loss difficult? Just wondering, because that would argue against the whole voluntary notion. Don’t let it get you down. It’s just that a lot of people posting here are absolute bobo-heads who really need to educate themselves. Well, ok they don’t have to educate themselves, but they should stop being dicks \*while \* they’re uneducated. I thought the Cell article cited below was particularly useful if any of them want to learn anything interesting (ie. something not pulled out of their ass). > [@Metacom](#): > > Cite? And please define “very fat.” Are we talking run-of-the-mill 20-100 lbs overweight, or Gilbert Grape’s mom fat? More than 100 lbs, less than Gilbert Grape’s Mom. BMI \>40. Here’s some cites (I dug up a few that had full text articles on line, but there are tons you have to pay for). Most point out that weight loss for anyone obese is extremely hard for to maintain (but I know I’ve seen studies with actual numbers in the past that said it’s even more unlikely for the morbidly/severely obese). For the record I’m not totally happy to cite them out of context just to back up my point, because they’re unnecessarily passivity-inducing I think. Even the authors of these articles for the most part buried them in a mountain of good advice on the differences between low calorie and very low calorie diets, etc. And I want to reiterate that I do believe the only way to lose weight is to somehow find a way to eat less despite increased biological pressure. [American Journal of Surgery](http://www.virtual.unifesp.br/cursos/nutricli/restrito/cirurgiaobes.pdf) > [@](#): > > First-line treatments, however, are usually ineffective in people who are morbidly obese. … **There are no published studies demonstrating significant sustained weight loss by diet therapy, exercise, or behavior modification in morbidly obese patients**. [American Society for Bariatric Surgery](http://www.asbs.org/html/rationale/rationale.html) > [@](#): > > Published scientific reports document that non-operative methods alone have not been effective in achieving a medically significant long term weight loss in severely obese adults. **It has been shown that the majority of patients regain all the weight lost over the next five years**.[45, 46] The average medical weight eduction trial is a 10-12 week study with average weight loss of 2.5 kg [The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism](http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/88/6/2462) > [@](#): > > The maximal weight loss achievable with any current dietary or pharmacological strategy for treating obesity varies with the individual but appears to be **no more than 10% of initial weight. As this threshold is approached, or perhaps as the time spent below initial weight increases, physiological mechanisms acting to preserve body fat mass cause a progressive increase in appetite and decrease in energy expenditure**. [British Medical Journal](http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/325/7367/757) > [@](#): > > **Clinical trials with long term follow up indicate that most lost weight is regained within 5 years,** which has contributed to the perception that long term reduction in body weight is difficult, if not impossible, to achieve.15 Physicians and patients must recognise and accept that obesity is a chronic condition that, just as with conditions such as hypertension, requires lifelong treatment > [@](#): > > Although professionals should provide clear, unambiguous messages about the health risks of obesity, they should avoid “victim blaming” and approach concerns about weight control in a manner that does not demoralise patients.3 Unrealistic goals of attaining “ideal” body weight are to be avoided. [American Family Physician.](http://www.aafp.org/afp/20000715/419.html) > [@](#): > > A feedback loop for weight loss has been postulated to explain why **patients can cenerally lose only 10 to 15 percent of their body weight**. As weight is lost by restricted energy intake, fat cells shrink, reducing expression of leptin, a product of the ob gene. As leptin levels fall, metabolic rate decreases, and appetite increases, thereby impeding further weight loss. [Cell](http://scholar.google.com/url?sa=U&q=http://allserv.rug.ac.be/~fspelema/les%25204-5%2520HMG/obesity.pdf) > [@](#): > > Therapy based on nutritional and behavioral counseling is capable of producing useful weight loss with attendant reduction of morbid consequences, **but weight loss is usually partial, and almost always temporary**. > [@](#): > > Obesity and its antithesis, starvation, have always been part of the human condition, and for most of human history have been seen as resulting simply from availability of food, or acts of will related to attainment of desired body shape. Although this view persists in some quarters to this day, the last 5 years of the millennium have witnessed a dramatic increase in our understanding of the biology of regulated energy balance and body weight. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/181 "2005-08-27T12:13:20Z")
> [@Amazon Floozy Goddess](#): > > …you don’t have to live in anyone else’s body but your own. So it’s none of your fucking business how much somebody else weighs. Um, but don’t fat people drive up medical costs for everyone via Medicare, Medicaid, and whatnot? My problem is not _being_ fat - if you want to be fat, knock yourself out. But _don’t_ force me to pay for your medical bills… :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/182 "2005-08-27T12:19:48Z")
Great cites, **uglybeech**. Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that no one has provided any cites for the notion that being fat is all a choice, weight loss is equally easy for everyone, etc.? I see insults and derision, but no cites. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/183 "2005-08-27T13:08:42Z")
I have no cites. I just wonder why fat is an issue in ‘first world’ countries. If it is an illness surely it could have been a) cured or b) at least less prevalent in the educated west, surely we know how it is caused. It seems that the educated nations are the ones looking for the cure…time to look to the ‘3rd’ world? No food=skinny/malnourished. Food overload=diet time. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/184 "2005-08-27T14:05:19Z")
Insulin my ass. How come I never saw any 3rd world Africans who were fat because of “insulin resistance?” Obesity is completely self-inflicted. Quit making excuses. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/185 "2005-08-27T14:08:48Z")
All of those cites still acknowledge that the obesity is a result of EATING, by the way. They make excuses for the cause of “increased appetite,” but the bottom line is still overeating. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/186 "2005-08-27T15:03:46Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > All of those cites still acknowledge that the obesity is a result of EATING, by the way. They make excuses for the cause of “increased appetite,” but the bottom line is still overeating. Jesus, Diogenes, listen for a second. Of course the bottom line is still overeating. The point is that it’s not a level playing field for everyone, and a lot of the fat people that you see struggle (and fail) with weight loss. Imagine if you will a gigantic staircase. Some people have arms and legs, and stride up with ease. Others have no arms, and stride up, only to fall. Others have to legs and have to pull themselves up slowly over time, sometimes losing ground. This is like people and their ability to lose weight. Metabolism plays a factor, as does other genetics as well as upbringing and social status. Would you be screaming, frothing at the mouth, with people with one leg saying “You just don’t want to climb those stairs!” It’s easier for some than others. Sure, it’s probably within the physical realm of possibility for most people to lose some weight (to varying degrees). However, it’s more complicated than that. Ethiopians aside, we live in a place with an abundance of food and where fatty food with little nutrients is actually cheaper than things like fresh vegetables. A lot of jobs are incredibly sedentary, particularly those available to women. Yes, it’s frustrating to see people who say that they cannot improve themselves. I’m working to improve, myself. However, I’m a bit insulted to hear that it’s “just willpower”. Why does obesity seem to run in families? Why was I overweight (when my siblings weren’t) at an incredibly early age? Did I lack the moral fiber to stay within the target range as a 3 month old? I showed tendencies towards enjoying fine motor skills and being fascinated with toys and objects rather than crawling all over the place as a little baby. When I finally was old enough to realize what being overweight was, I was already at a disadvantage to my peers. A little understanding – particularly in the medical field, addressing the OP – would go a long way towards actually treating obesity. It’s a major problem and standing on a soapbox about it isn’t particularly helpful. I think we need to give people better tools to deal with obesity and talk about it in a manner which is encouraging, rather than belittling. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435/187 "2005-08-27T15:08:34Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > More than 100 lbs, less than Gilbert Grape’s Mom. BMI \>40. OK. Now, what percentage of people who are overweight fall into that range? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-offended-by-truthful-advice-from-doctor/318435.md?page=10)