# Woman taken to the wrong hospital and now owes a gazillion dollars. This shouldn't even be a thing. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 12, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486 "2014-11-12T23:59:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/61 "2014-11-15T00:10:19Z")
[This is what happens when ER is in network, but the doctor who treat you isn’t.]([Surprise Medical Bills: ER Is In Network, But Doctor Isn't : Shots - Health News : NPR](http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/11/11/363059517/surprise-medical-bills-er-is-in-network-but-doctor-isnt?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=2036)") ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/62 "2014-11-15T00:30:23Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > tl;dr we need universal health care. That should be the first sentence of the first post of every American health care payment thread. > [@Athena](#): > > The rest of the world laughs at us It’s like watching a train wreck – riveting in a sick sort of way. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/63 "2014-11-15T04:15:31Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > Slight hijack-but the doctor seen for the kid’s strep was perfectly correct in not getting a strep test. For diagnosis of strep; the most cost effective way is to look at the probability of a sore throat being strep. > > If the history and physical give more than a 50-70% chance of it being strep, it is often more cost effective and better for the patient to treat rather than to run a rapid strep test, which adds cost and is not 100% accurate anyway (the gold standard is culture, which can take several days). > > If there is a very low chance of it being strep, it is most cost effective and better for the patient to not treat with antibiotics, since treatment really only prevents possible heart complications, antibiotics can be started up to 10 days after symptoms start, and most mild cases of strep are self-limited without antibiotics and without complications. Remember that people also die from antibiotic-related complications. > > It is when you have a case that falls in the middle that strep testing becomes more important in deciding whether or not to treat. > > IOW: > > Looks like strep, sounds like strep and/or known strep exposure-treat without testing > Looks sort of like strep or not really like strep but known exposure-get a rapid strep test > Doesn’t look or sound like strep-don’t treat +1 But all of this can still be done for less than a hundred bucks at an urgent care/walk-in clinic. People do have to take accountability for their healthcare choices when it’s possible. Sore throat? Yes. Heart attack and associated rehab? No. And I’ll add like everyone else – the US needs \*payment \*reform, \*billing \*reform, and _ **single-payer** _, no bullshit exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/64 "2014-11-15T04:47:28Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > +1 > > But all of this can still be done for less than a hundred bucks at an urgent care/walk-in clinic. > > People do have to take accountability for their healthcare choices when it’s possible. Sore throat? Yes. Heart attack and associated rehab? No. > > And I’ll add like everyone else – the US needs \*payment \*reform, \*billing \*reform, and _ **single-payer** _, no bullshit exceptions. The difference is that ERs (I believe) don’t require payment up front while walk-in clinics do. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/65 "2014-11-15T05:22:29Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I don’t know - I live in a country with national healthcare and I’ve never been to an emergency room unless gushing blood or broken bones were involved. Everyone here knows that emergency rooms are for emergencies; anything else you see your GP or drop by a clinic. Saturday nights at ERs in Britain are apparently quite a picture, gushing blood and broken bones on the scale of an average night in Glasgow in the olden times. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/66 "2014-11-15T11:14:12Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > (By the way, how does $500 + $400 = $2700. I could not figure that out.) I think they’re including the 12 months at $150 insurance cost in the total, so it’s $1800 + $500 + $400 = $2700 Threads like this make me want to go buy the NHS something nice, maybe some quality truffles and a bunch of flowers. Oh, and while you are always going to get a few muppets who go to the ER for a stubbed toe, making sure there is a well publicised 24hr alternative does cut it down a hell of a lot- even for the terminally selfish. You show up at a UK A&E with a stubbed toe, and you will get seen (if just to check that’s all the problem is), eventually, after everyone else, but you’ll get some very snarky comments from the person who sees you, and probably a leaflet saying who to call next time (possibly your mum to kiss it better, in that case). ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/67 "2014-11-15T11:47:41Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > Wow! This thread is great! I’m going to bookmark it… > > Every time I get pissed off with some idiocy of the National Health Service I’m going to re-read it and thank my lucky stars I live in the UK! The part that steams me most is the utter failure of American conservatives to explain why the perfectly reasonable seeming regimes in other countries are so horrible, especially in forums like this one where residents of those countries can respond. It’s not just that the ones I’ve seen are SO unconvincing, it’s that most of the time, they don’t seem to even bother to think about it. It’s infuriating. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/68 "2014-11-15T12:15:22Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > The part that steams me most is the utter failure of American conservatives to explain why the perfectly reasonable seeming regimes in other countries are so horrible, especially in forums like this one where residents of those countries can respond. It’s not just that the ones I’ve seen are SO unconvincing, it’s that most of the time, they don’t seem to even bother to think about it. It’s infuriating. They usually employ a sort of reverse American Exceptionalism - America is just _different_, by which they mean worse. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/69 "2014-11-15T12:39:17Z")
As an outsider it’s interesting to see this general area of debate has shifted away from phrases like ‘death panals’ and ‘socialized medicine’. After decades of lobbyists successfully wrapping the issue in a patriotic flag, it does seem like real progress - justice, even - is being made. This is really great news for the common man (woman, family …). ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/70 "2014-11-15T12:42:14Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Saturday nights at ERs in Britain are apparently quite a picture, gushing blood and broken bones on the scale of an average night in Glasgow in the olden times. Hell yes. Almost entirely late teens to mid-twenties in alcohol-related injuries. You have to be a saint to cope with that shit. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/71 "2014-11-15T13:23:42Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > They usually employ a sort of reverse American Exceptionalism - America is just _different_, by which they mean worse. “What’s all the fuss about? The woman was only billed $50K. That’s nothing! The hospital saved this ingrate’s life, and she’s quibbling over chump change? This is a AMERICA! GET A JOB! And maybe she should lose weight or exercise more so this doesn’t happen again. Because choices. Choices determine what happens to us. So somehow this is all her fault. I just know it.” -Typical American Conservative. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/72 "2014-11-15T13:37:24Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > The part that steams me most is the utter failure of American conservatives to explain why the perfectly reasonable seeming regimes in other countries are so horrible, especially in forums like this one where residents of those countries can respond. It’s not just that the ones I’ve seen are SO unconvincing, it’s that most of the time, they don’t seem to even bother to think about it. It’s infuriating. They’re paid good money by lobbyists and corporations to not think, and to convince the public they do. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/73 "2014-11-15T15:05:27Z")
A kid has an apple. Someone comes up to the kid and offers to trade two apples for the kid’s one apple. The kid refuses and has a tantrum. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/74 "2014-11-15T15:16:42Z")
A great many people present at emergency wards when they should have presented at a clinic or nursing station or called in over the phone. Why not offer that level of care at or contiguous to a hospital so as to divert them to the appropriate level of care rather than have them clog up the emergency ward? Oh, wait a minute, I get it now – that wouldn’t work very well unless there was a health care system in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/75 "2014-11-15T17:53:05Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > They usually employ a sort of reverse American Exceptionalism - America is just _different_, by which they mean worse. America is exceptionally incompetent, according to these arguments. Exceptionally stupid. Exceptionally corrupt. Exceptionally unable to handle math (okay, that one is true). ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/76 "2014-11-16T19:35:33Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > A great many people present at emergency wards when they should have presented at a clinic or nursing station or called in over the phone. Why not offer that level of care at or contiguous to a hospital so as to divert them to the appropriate level of care rather than have them clog up the emergency ward? > > Oh, wait a minute, I get it now – that wouldn’t work very well unless there was a health care system in the first place. +1 It is happening in some places. The hospital closest to me does just that. They have an “urgent care center” which is open late and early and weekends, and handles primary care stuff. They have an ER for things like broken bones, gushing blood, heart attacks. So if a kid has a sore throat, the kid is sent up to the urgent care center. If grandma has chest pain and is acting weird, she goes to the ER. Frees up the ER, reduces wait times, and saves money. Some hospitals are signing up with the g’vt to be accountable care organizations for Medicare, which means they are judged by how well they save money – including keeping people out of ERs and inpatient hospital stays (the two top-dollar locations for care). As they come up with ways to save money for their ACO population, they will roll those changes out to the non-Medicare population as well. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/77 "2014-11-16T19:48:00Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > A great many people present at emergency wards when they should have presented at a clinic or nursing station or called in over the phone. Why not offer that level of care at or contiguous to a hospital so as to divert them to the appropriate level of care rather than have them clog up the emergency ward? > > Oh, wait a minute, I get it now – that wouldn’t work very well unless there was a health care system in the first place. Exactly. A lot of people who defend the current system of healthcare in the United States argue that things would be much improved if Americans would simply use health care properly. So, for example, if people didn’t clog up the ER with minor ailments, everything would be better. This is true, but it puts the cart before the horse. In many cases, the reason that people clog up the ER for minor ailments is that they know someone will treat them eventually, and will probably do it for free. If poor people had affordable options for everyday medical care, they would be far less likely to go to the ER for a mild fever or a chronic condition. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/78 "2014-11-16T20:05:11Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > That should be the first sentence of the first post of every American health care payment thread. > > It’s like watching a train wreck – riveting in a sick sort of way. We have universal healthcare–a term that means coverage is available to all. With Obamacare providing subsidies for income our system in terms of **coverage** is no different from Germany, which no one denies has universal healthcare. So actually, having universal healthcare doesn’t at all address the problems brought up here. Instead the problems you’re running into here are unique issues, basically a mix of: -Charge master amounts for hospital services versus “negotiated” amounts -Refusal by some hospitals to work with some insurance companies on those negotiations / and vice versa (but the blame is far more on hospitals) These are all a function of no real price controls on health care, since Obamacare only addressed the coverage issue we now have universal health care but no real fix to the cost problem–something I said from the first day PPACA was passed. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/79 "2014-11-16T20:06:12Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Exactly. > > A lot of people who defend the current system of healthcare in the United States argue that things would be much improved if Americans would simply use health care properly. So, for example, if people didn’t clog up the ER with minor ailments, everything would be better. > > This is true, but it puts the cart before the horse. In many cases, the reason that people clog up the ER for minor ailments is that they know someone will treat them eventually, and will probably do it for free. If poor people had affordable options for everyday medical care, they would be far less likely to go to the ER for a mild fever or a chronic condition. Poor people have affordable options. They can get either Medicaid or subsidized market plans, which by law cannot charge for preventive care. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486/80 "2014-11-16T20:08:45Z")
The US does not have universal healthcare. Your apparent definition is “coverage is available to all” would be true if health insurance cost a billion dollars a year and only 50 people had it. You can be too poor to be required to buy health insurance, and then you may or may not be eligible for medicaid. It’s certainly not guaranteed. Republican governors across the country are turning down federal money to expand their medicaid roles because fuck Obama, fuck Obamacare, and fuck the poor. Even then, the coverage is often shitty. If you’re barely able to afford insurance with subsidies, good luck with your $5000/year deductable if you need medical care. I’m sure everyone who needs subsidies can easily spare $5000 more dollars per year for medical care. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-taken-to-the-wrong-hospital-and-now-owes-a-gazillion-dollars-this-shouldnt-even-be-a-thing/704486.md?page=5)