# Woman who allegedly smoked crack and had stillborn baby to be tried for murder **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 20, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187 "2014-03-20T21:03:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/21 "2014-03-21T05:40:28Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Every time these types of things come up, I am so forever grateful that I am unable to get pregnant. Nm ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/22 "2014-03-21T05:42:24Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Bizarre. That I can’t get pregnant, or that I’m grateful? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/23 "2014-03-21T12:35:38Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > Anything else covers a lot of ground. You should have seen my daughter when she was pregnant. No blue cheese, no sushi, no deli meat, no swordfish or white tuna, no caffeine, blah blah blah, the list went on and on. Given this case, where might a prosecutor draw the line? So, I’m pro-choice and think this case is complete bs, and I in no way support any type of prosecution of this kind. That said, however, legally speaking, it was be easy enough to draw the line at acts which are illegal on their own. eta: I’m not against this because I’m pro-choice, I’m against it because it’s folly of the highest order, but the political implications on the other side are clear enough. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/24 "2014-03-21T14:07:45Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Every time these types of things come up, I am so forever grateful that I am unable to get pregnant. Funny, that was the first thing I thought of, too. Sometimes it’s the first thing I think of when I wake up in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/25 "2014-03-21T17:17:28Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > ‘_Depraved Heart_’ sounds like a Country album; or if not Country, Nashville. What’s the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/26 "2014-03-21T17:26:41Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > That I can’t get pregnant, or that I’m grateful? I _said_ nm. So nm and good day, madam! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/27 "2014-03-21T17:31:22Z")
Nashville is the modern Papacy & Vatican contrasted with christianity’s itinerant apostles vowed to poverty and the Message. Not that I care. Not a fan of either. Quite liked Laura Bell Bundy’s feminist anthem with Colt Ford, _‘Two Step’_ video. ---
**Author:** ![butterfiles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@butterfiles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butterfiles)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/28 "2014-03-21T22:56:02Z")
Lesson learned. Preemptive abortion, back to the crack, move on. But what kind of scientist could honestly testify that they are reasonably sure that the crack caused the stillbirth? \*If the mom took crack, that’s bad though. Definitely not cool. But no jail. Shame on mama if true. Sushi & hero sandwiches ok. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/29 "2014-03-21T23:47:29Z")
Apparently, [this sort of thing has been going on for a while now](http://www.salon.com/2013/10/31/the_rights_war_on_pregnant_women/). ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/30 "2014-03-22T00:15:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Apparently, [this sort of thing has been going on for a while now](http://www.salon.com/2013/10/31/the_rights_war_on_pregnant_women/). Once again proving that anti-abortionists are actually anti woman and don’t give a rip about the fetus - “I had a patient a few years ago who presented in need of care, but by the time I arrived at the emergency room, the police had already been called,” Hartke explained. “She was taken to jail without an attorney to represent her, though her fetus was designated a legal guardian. She was then put into a locked mental health ward at another hospital, where she was denied prenatal care for over a month.” While detained, this woman lost her job, and her husband had to take a leave of absence from his job in order to care for their 2-year-old child. “She was given no treatment for her withdrawal symptoms,” Hartke continued. “But she was given allergy medication, sleep medication and Xanax, which left her so sedated that she could barely speak.” None of that sounds good for either the woman or the fetus … ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/31 "2014-03-22T01:28:27Z")
Shit, this is the county where I _live_. I may never have sex again. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/32 "2014-03-22T01:34:48Z")
Semi-serious question: If a fetus is legally considered a person and can therefore be murdered, could pregnant women not claim some sort of self-defence for abortions if the fetus is harming them, or even with no other justification than “It was a person inside me without permission”? I mean, a person actually being fully _inside_ someone has got to be some kind of assault. I wouldn’t stand for it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/33 "2014-03-22T03:01:50Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > Shit, this is the county where I _live_. I may never have sex again. Good luck with that. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/34 "2014-03-22T03:03:44Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > He claims to do an average of 4 autopsies a day. Where does he find the time, with all that evidence he has to fake? > [@Bozuit](#): > > Semi-serious question: If a fetus is legally considered a person and can therefore be murdered, could pregnant women not claim some sort of self-defence for abortions… You wouldn’t even need a Stand Your Ground law, right? “I tried to retreat, but no matter where I ran, it got there ahead of me.” ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/35 "2014-03-22T03:12:31Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > He claims to do an average of 4 autopsies a day. > > Nice! I bet that’s very thorough work he’s doing. On its face, that doesn’t seem that excessive to me. Maybe a little overworked, but most local government types are. Couple of hours for an autopsy seems reasonable. Especially since I’d guess a large portion of them are just run-of-the-mill heart attacks and whatnot. Course IANAD, so maybe one of our resident MDs could weigh in? ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/36 "2014-03-22T04:00:54Z")
> [@Doctor\_Who](#): > > On its face, that doesn’t seem that excessive to me. Maybe a little overworked, but most local government types are. Couple of hours for an autopsy seems reasonable. Especially since I’d guess a large portion of them are just run-of-the-mill heart attacks and whatnot. Course IANAD, so maybe one of our resident MDs could weigh in? From the Wiki article linked above, “Performing more than 325 autopsies per year is considered a “Phase II deficiency” by the National Association of Medical Examiners, and prevents an office from being accredited.” ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/37 "2014-03-22T05:46:45Z")
So let me get this right: the child was stillborn, ostensibly due to the fact the umbilical cord was wrapped around her neck…yet the prosecutors want to try the mother for her drug use…even though there is (to my understanding) no correlation between drug use and umbilical cord accidents? Right-o. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/38 "2014-03-22T05:50:32Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Semi-serious question: If a fetus is legally considered a person and can therefore be murdered, could pregnant women not claim some sort of self-defence for abortions if the fetus is harming them, or even with no other justification than “It was a person inside me without permission”? I mean, a person actually being fully _inside_ someone has got to be some kind of assault. I wouldn’t stand for it. I try using a homeowner confronted with an unwanted trespasser as analogy - the homeowner certainly has the right to remove a trespasser, right? Strangely, hardcore prolifers don’t make the connection. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/39 "2014-03-22T10:08:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I try using a homeowner confronted with an unwanted trespasser as analogy - the homeowner certainly has the right to remove a trespasser, right? Strangely, hardcore prolifers don’t make the connection. You knew when buying house there that there would be a chance of getting a trespasser. If you didn’t want one you should have kept renting! ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/40 "2014-03-22T10:28:33Z")
You should, in fact, allow trespassers to live in your home and eat your food for nine months, and then cut open your stomach before leaving. Seriously, it’s the least you can do. Quit yer bitching. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187.md?page=3)