# Woman who allegedly smoked crack and had stillborn baby to be tried for murder **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 20, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187 "2014-03-20T21:03:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/81 "2014-04-05T13:02:26Z")
His whole decision to charge the woman appears to be personal. He shouldn’t\* need\* a personal reason to take a case. He’s the DA. Does he not prosecute rapists if he doesn’t personally know any rape victims? And he should have let an assistant handle this prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/82 "2014-04-21T18:30:49Z")
Hmm. Apparently, [even pro-life Republicans are divided on the Tennessee bill](http://www.salon.com/2014/04/21/you_cant_always_trust_people_to_do_the_right_thing_how_a_law_split_pro_life_gopers_in_tennessee/) that would charge a woman with felony assault if she uses drugs while pregnant and harm results to the fetus. (It’s not clear from the story whether alcohol would count as a drug, BTW; and it probably does harm more fetuses than any other. There might not really be any such thing as a “crack baby,” but fetal alcohol syndrome is a real problem.) > [@](#): > > The measure, which Republican Gov. Bill Haslam has only days left to sign or veto before it automatically becomes law, has been denounced by reproductive rights advocates, medical experts and public health officials in the state. It has also produced a striking divide between a usually unified bloc — pro-life Republicans in the General Assembly. > > “I represent a rural district,” Republican state Sen. Mike Bell, one of the 7 Republicans in the state Senate to vote against the measure, told Salon. “There’s no treatment facility for these women there, and it would be a substantial drive for a woman caught in one of these situations to go to an approved treatment facility. Looking at the map of the state, there are several areas where this is going to be a problem.” > > His concerns are well-founded. According to research from Healthy and Free Tennessee, only two of the state’s 177 addiction treatment facilities that provide on-site prenatal care allow older children to stay with their mothers while they are undergoing treatment. And only 19 of these facilities offer any addiction care specifically oriented toward pregnant women. The problem of access is further compounded by Tennessee’s current refusal of the Medicaid expansion; according to recent data, the uninsured rate for people aged 19 – 39 hovers around 25 percent in the state, leaving many women without reliable access to basic medical or prenatal care, much less drug treatment. > > But when Bell raised the issue of access during a committee hearing on the measure, he says the testifying district attorney told him to simply trust that law enforcement wouldn’t prosecute any woman who wanted to get into a drug treatment program but couldn’t. “Now as much as I would like to believe that, I do know that you can’t always trust people to do the right thing — and the right thing here is not to criminalize or prosecute a woman who wants help.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/83 "2014-05-04T01:57:52Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Hmm. Apparently, [even pro-life Republicans are divided on the Tennessee bill](http://www.salon.com/2014/04/21/you_cant_always_trust_people_to_do_the_right_thing_how_a_law_split_pro_life_gopers_in_tennessee/) that would charge a woman with felony assault if she uses drugs while pregnant and harm results to the fetus. [Well, they passed it.](http://www.salon.com/2014/04/30/tennessee_just_became_the_first_state_that_will_jail_women_for_their_pregnancy_outcomes/) ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/84 "2014-05-04T13:55:38Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > So basically, if any woman has a miscarriage, she should immediately be checked for drugs, alcohol, and anything else that might have contributed to the miscarriage, so that she might be put on trial for murder. > > I’m glad we’re here to make tragedies even more traumatic. Thanks moral crusaders. You’re such awesome people. Welcome to El Salvador where abortion is banned under all circumstances. Poor women who miscarry and end up in public hospitals (rich women can avoid this) are sometimes reported to the police, tried for murder, and sentenced to decades in prison. Fearing this, many women who miscarry don’t seek medical care and some of them die. In Nicaragua (ditto on the abortion ban), medical personnel can be prosecuted for treatment that might have contributed to a miscarriage so pregnant women don’t get treated for all kinds of things. And some of them die. Because, life! ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/85 "2014-05-04T15:29:13Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > If you think a fetus is a human with all the rights of any child , this is no different than prosecuting a mother for child endangerment for smoking crack while in the same room as the kid. > > Not that I agree with that premise, but I don’t find it insane. Frankly, I think this story is a great example of why it is an insane premise. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/86 "2014-05-04T17:57:01Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > Welcome to El Salvador where abortion is banned under all circumstances. Poor women who miscarry and end up in public hospitals (rich women can avoid this) are sometimes reported to the police, tried for murder, and sentenced to decades in prison. Fearing this, many women who miscarry don’t seek medical care and some of them die. > > In Nicaragua (ditto on the abortion ban), medical personnel can be prosecuted for treatment that might have contributed to a miscarriage so pregnant women don’t get treated for all kinds of things. And some of them die. > > Because, life! I don’t suppose the lefties/commies in those countries ever had different policies, either? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/87 "2014-05-04T18:13:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Well, they passed it.](http://www.salon.com/2014/04/30/tennessee_just_became_the_first_state_that_will_jail_women_for_their_pregnancy_outcomes/) Crap. Bad policy and worse law. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/88 "2014-05-04T20:35:04Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Crap. Bad policy and worse law. Seven Republicans voted against the measure…but _all_ the Democrats voted _for_ it. Sonofabitch. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/89 "2014-05-04T21:34:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Seven Republicans voted against the measure…but _all_ the Democrats voted _for_ it. > > Sonofabitch. I am surprised. In neighboring Arkansas, there was much bitching among Democrats concerning a voter photo ID bill. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/90 "2014-05-05T00:10:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I don’t suppose the lefties/commies in those countries ever had different policies, either? I’m not sure what you’re saying. Both countries currently have leftist governments, insofar as the political left can be said to exist in Latin America these days. Nicaragua’s laws on abortion have become much stricter under the Sandinistas (current version). The FMLN hasn’t done much to challenge the total ban in El Salvador. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/91 "2014-05-05T01:31:23Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > I’m not sure what you’re saying. Both countries currently have leftist governments, insofar as the political left can be said to exist in Latin America these days. Nicaragua’s laws on abortion have become much stricter under the Sandinistas (current version). The FMLN hasn’t done much to challenge the total ban in El Salvador. So the pro-choice position is represented in the region by . . . nobody, ever? ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/92 "2014-05-05T02:17:20Z")
In the old days, when only one of either child or mother was going to make it, the RC priestly position was — antagonistic to the stern old patriarchs who preferred their living wife to a putative child — that the new soul of the child took precedence. Then the bitter father took it out on the child for the rest of his life. Anyway, in such a case, can we suppose the State of Mississippi will prosecute the child for causing the death of its mother in the future ? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/93 "2014-05-05T02:56:05Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Anyway, in such a case, can we suppose the State of Mississippi will prosecute the child for causing the death of its mother in the future ? Great \*Onion \*article. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/94 "2014-05-05T05:07:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I don’t suppose the lefties/commies in those countries ever had different policies, either? Being anti-abortion isn’t a left or right wing position, it’s an anti-woman position. It’s about abusing women, or using them as breeding animals; neither of which attitudes is restricted to one side of the political spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/95 "2014-05-05T10:45:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So the pro-choice position is represented in the region by . . . nobody, ever? There are certainly feminist movements advocating for change but thus far few politicians or political parties capable of and willing to challenge the Catholic Church on the matter. It’s odd. Leftist governments are certainly willing to challenge the Church on LGBT matters. Just not when reproductive choices are involved. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/96 "2014-05-05T14:47:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Seven Republicans voted against the measure…but _all_ the Democrats voted _for_ it. > > Sonofabitch. It’s Tennessee; I guess Democrats = Blue Dogs & Boll Weevils. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187/97 "2014-07-15T14:16:00Z")
[More from Tennessee.](http://www.salon.com/2014/07/11/first_woman_arrested_under_tennessee_law_that_criminalizes_pregnancy_outcomes/) > [@](#): > > In April of this year, Tennessee Gov. Bill Haslam acted against the recommendations of doctors, addiction experts, reproductive health organizations and nearly every national medical association and signed a measure that allows prosecutors to charge a woman with criminal assault if she uses narcotics during her pregnancy. Only a week after going into effect, the law has been used to arrest and charge a new mother with simple assault after she and her newborn tested positive for amphetamine, which is not a narcotic. > > As reported by WBIR, Mallory Loyola was arrested and charged with the misdemeanor offense two days after giving birth to her daughter. Loyola’s daughter is not currently in state custody, but the Department of Children’s Services is investigating the case. > > \ > > The Tennessee law is the first in the nation to charge a pregnant woman with criminal assault if she uses certain drugs, but remains part of a national trend that makes women vulnerable to detention and incarceration because of their pregnancies. An additional 17 states currently consider prenatal drug use a civil offense, South Carolina law handles drug use during pregnancy as child abuse, Alabama prosecutes pregnant women using a law intended to protect children from explosive meth labs and several statutes across the country have been used to the same ends. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-allegedly-smoked-crack-and-had-stillborn-baby-to-be-tried-for-murder/684187.md?page=4)