# Woman who flipped off Trump fired **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 7, 2017, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956 "2017-11-07T08:33:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/41 "2017-11-09T03:08:58Z")
What I always say about “at will” employment is that not only can you be fired for _any_ reason, you can be fired for _no_ reason. I don’t know how much applicable labor/civil rights law there is on the subject but since “at will” employment, at least by that moniker, is a fairly new concept, I’d guess not much. Her best bet, if she wants to stick it to them, is to go the civil rights route, as Little Nemo has so eloquently explained upthread. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/42 "2017-11-09T03:26:55Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Cite? [Cite.](https://extranewsfeed.com/woman-fired-for-flipping-off-trumps-motorcade-receives-453-673-job-offers-ad9df89bdbe2) 99% of them are probably bogus, but she won’t be hurting for job offers. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/43 "2018-04-05T22:52:10Z")
Naturally she is suing her former employer: > [@](#): > > A Virginia woman who lost her job after a photo of her flipping off President Trump’s motorcade went viral last year is suing her former employer. > > Juli Briskman filed her lawsuit in Fairfax County Circuit Court on Wednesday, alleging her free speech was violated when she was forced to resign as a marketing analyst at Akima over the photograph. She is suing for wrongful termination and breach of contract. > > “[Briskman] chose in her private time and in her capacity as a private citizen to express her disapproval of President Trump by extending her middle finger,” her lawyers wrote in their complaint. “Although many will disagree with plaintiff’s message and her means of expressing it, there can be no doubt that such speech is at the very core of the First Amendment and the Virginia Constitution.” > **[The Woman Who Flipped Off Trump's Motorcade Is Suing Her Old Company For...](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/davidmack/woman-flipped-off-trump-motorcade-suing-employer-briskman)** > > "I never imagined that my 'one-finger salute' to the presidential motorcade and its occupant would cost me my job," said Juli Briskman, who called her firing "un-American." ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/44 "2018-04-05T23:04:25Z")
I hope she wins. Businesses are concerned concerning the image their employees give the company, but she did not do this “on company time”, nor while wearing a sign saying “I work for ACME coyote equipment”. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/45 "2018-04-06T00:56:29Z")
Yeah she’s being subjected to “viral shame culture”, only with a notably political side. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I hope she wins. > Businesses are concerned concerning the image their employees give the company, but she did not do this “on company time”, nor while wearing a sign saying “I work for ACME coyote equipment”. I dunno… If I find out my employee in his spare time and away from the shop addresses a checkout clerk as “fucking n\*\*\*er”, or was standing outside a soldier funeral with the “God hates fags” sign, I may want to have him stop being my employee anyway. Yet at the same time I may let slide cruising in a car with lewd rude bumper stickers or writing a pamphlet accusing the mayor of carnal knowledge with four different species of livestock. But in either case the input of a hundred thousand people with nothing to do but enjoying retweeting their RO after some loser with nothing better to do identifies him and ties him to me would be a PITA. Heck, if I had the money to spare for the lawyers, I’d find who was it that detected the link to me, and sue \*them \*for my expenses in responding one way or the other to the employee’s situation. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/46 "2018-04-06T01:18:34Z")
You have the right as an employer to direct the opinions and actions of your employees in their lives away from work? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/47 "2018-04-06T01:29:11Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > All potential arguments that it wasn’t fair, but unlikely any grounds for a law suit. > [@PastTense](#): > > Naturally she is suing her former employer: Good. Grounds never stopped Trump from suing. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/48 "2018-04-06T01:51:55Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You have the right as an employer to direct the opinions and actions of your employees in their lives away from work? No. But in a euphemistically-named “right-to-work” state you have the right to fire your employees for any reason at all, no matter how unrelated to the job they are employed to do, with very limited exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/49 "2018-04-06T02:03:02Z")
At-will employment means that a company can fire you for no reason, but it does _not_ mean they can fire you for any reason. They can’t fire you for belonging to a protected class. Is political affiliation a protected class? I thought it was, but I might be mistaken on that. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/50 "2018-04-06T02:04:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **UDS** : > > No. But in a euphemistically-named “right-to-work” state… That’s different. We’re talking about at-will, here, not right-to-work. Right-to-work involves unionization. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/51 "2018-04-06T03:34:41Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You have the right as an employer to direct the opinions and actions of your employees in their lives away from work? No, but in Virginia you generally have the ability to cease employing a person when they do something that you don’t like. She’s free to continue flipping off Trump, she just can’t do it while employed with her former company. [http://www.doli.virginia.gov/laborlaw/laborlaw\_faqs.html](http://www.doli.virginia.gov/laborlaw/laborlaw_faqs.html) > [@](#): > > Virginia is an employment-at-will state; this means the employer may terminate any employee at any time, for any reason, or for no reason. As a general rule, therefore, the employee has no right to challenge the termination. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/52 "2018-04-06T03:39:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > They can’t fire you for belonging to a protected class. Is political affiliation a protected class? I thought it was, but I might be mistaken on that. You are mistaken > **[Protected Class | Practical Law](https://content.next.westlaw.com/practical-law/document/Ibb0a38daef0511e28578f7ccc38dcbee/Protected-Class?contextData=%28sc.Default%29&transitionType=Default&firstPage=true&bhcp=1&viewType=FullText)** > > Protected Class ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/53 "2018-04-06T12:53:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That’s different. We’re talking about at-will, here, not right-to-work. Right-to-work involves unionization. I believe such laws are called that in an attempt to pull the wool over voter’s eyes. They should indeed be called, “Right to Fire Laws”. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/54 "2018-04-06T13:38:43Z")
Are you willing to give up your right to quit for any reason and at any time as you so desire? Why should the company be held to a different standard? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/55 "2018-04-06T14:15:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > At-will employment means that a company can fire you for no reason, but it does _not_ mean they can fire you for any reason. They can’t fire you for belonging to a protected class. Is political affiliation a protected class? I thought it was, but I might be mistaken on that. Not federally for private employers, and state protection varies by jurisdiction. Plus of course political affiliation is one thing, public behavior whether politically motivated or not is another. Also, employers often include “morals” and “conduct that may lead to a workplace distraction” clauses in hiring contracts, which really translates to “if we get angry calls and letters about you, whether or nor it’s about your work it’s all lawful, it’s our call if you’re more trouble to us than you’re worth.” I imagine some employer with such a contract arguing that flipping off the Prez is fireable but taking a knee or raising a sign saying “Shame!” would be different. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/56 "2018-04-06T14:21:25Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Are you willing to give up your right to quit for any reason and at any time as you so desire? Why should the company be held to a different standard? Let me guess, are you Republican? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/57 "2018-04-06T14:30:42Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Are you willing to give up your right to quit for any reason and at any time as you so desire? Why should the company be held to a different standard? That’s not really the correct analogy. The real issue is the balance of power in the workplace. Can your employer fire you at any time for any reason? Can you fire your employer at any time for any reason? In an employment at will state, the answers are yes and no, which clearly establishes the employer is in complete control. In a just cause state, the answer to the second question is still no; you cannot fire your employer. But there is some limitation on your employer’s ability to fire you. An employer has to have a job-related reason for firing an employer. Usually the standard is that the business has a rule, the rule was reasonable, and the employee violated the rule. This doctrine still weighs the balance of power heavily in favor of the employer. But it’s not absolutely weighed in their favor. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/58 "2018-04-06T15:45:27Z")
I don’t understand this part (snipped significantly, but I believe I preserved the meaning): > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > … Can you fire your employer at any time for any reason? In an employment at will state, the answers … no, which clearly establishes the employer is in complete control. … In an at-will state, I’d say that yes, you can “fire” your employer at any time by quitting. Either party can end the relationship when they determine it’s no longer in their benefit. That seems “fair” to me. Could you elaborate on what you mean by the “no” answer though? It seems wrong to me, but I’d like to understand what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/59 "2018-04-06T16:08:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That’s not really the correct analogy. The real issue is the balance of power in the workplace. Can your employer fire you at any time for any reason? Can you fire your employer at any time for any reason? In an employment at will state, the answers are yes and no, which clearly establishes the employer is in complete control. > > In a just cause state, the answer to the second question is still no; you cannot fire your employer. But there is some limitation on your employer’s ability to fire you. An employer has to have a job-related reason for firing an employer. Usually the standard is that the business has a rule, the rule was reasonable, and the employee violated the rule. > > This doctrine still weighs the balance of power heavily in favor of the employer. But it’s not absolutely weighed in their favor. Not that it is a huge difference, but if you fire someone without cause in an at will state, they can collect unemployment, if they are fired with cause or they quit, they cannot. Does discourage employers from being too abusive, if you are firing people without cause, you can get jacked on your unemployment insurance. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956/60 "2018-04-06T16:15:48Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t understand this part (snipped significantly, but I believe I preserved the meaning): > > In an at-will state, I’d say that yes, you can “fire” your employer at any time by quitting. Either party can end the relationship when they determine it’s no longer in their benefit. That seems “fair” to me. Could you elaborate on what you mean by the “no” answer though? It seems wrong to me, but I’d like to understand what you mean. As an employer, I will say that it is a tough time finding replacements when employees quit, so in a way, and employee quitting is "“firing me.” However, I have also been an employee. Between the two, it is much easier to find an employee than it is to find a job. The employer certainly has the greater power there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/woman-who-flipped-off-trump-fired/800956.md?page=4)