# womans lib bah!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 21, 2000, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womans-lib-bah/7687 "2000-02-21T05:03:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![loadtoad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8baadc/32.png) [@loadtoad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/loadtoad)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2000, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womans-lib-bah/7687/1 "2000-02-21T05:03:00Z")
After a long talk with my wife recently i have come to a shocking conclusion. Women constantly argue that the metaphoric “glass ceiling” of prejudice keeps them from advancing into the higher pay and mostly male dominated jobs. I, on the other hand, find woman just as critical of a man that tries to break out of his traditional role as man of the house, or the bread winner… For instance a woman who stays home all day taking care of maintianing the household while earning no income is a “housewife” very respectable… A man who tries the same, is labled a “bum”. A woman can stay in a part-time job with little or no opportunity of advancement her whole life, and provides a second income for the family…my, my, very noble. Men are considered to be “spinning thier wheels” or just plain lazy… Is this a double standard? Todays women want all the privledges of a man, but none of the responsibilities. ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2000, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womans-lib-bah/7687/2 "2000-02-21T05:26:00Z")
Countdown to removal to Great Debates… 10… 9… 8… * * * Yer pal, Satan ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2000, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womans-lib-bah/7687/3 "2000-02-21T05:34:00Z")
This sounds more like a Great Debate (or a thread for the BBQ Pit if it gets too rancorous) than it does a General Question. As it is here in GQ for the moment, let me point out that I thought you were doing fine, **loadtoad** , until you got here > [@](#): > > Todays women want all the privledges of a man, but none of the responsibilities. That one broad, sweeping, overgeneralization lost you most of your presumed sincerity and earned you lots of scorn. ## Ignoring that last line, have you noticed any women who actually condemned a genuine “Mr. Mom”? Or has most of the condemnation and ridicule actually come from guys? If it is guys that are scorning house-husbands, you can hardly claim that the women have a double standard. If the women are ridiculing the house-husband, you have a right to challenge _those_ women and their commitment to equality. (You will still not have determined the _all_ women have the same issues.) Tom~ ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2000, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womans-lib-bah/7687/4 "2000-02-21T05:41:00Z")
Hey, look! A OP from the 70’s just popped out of a time warp. Being a “Mr Mom” has become a status symbol. Wish I could do it, but alas, I’m old and fat. 😃 Peace, mangeorge (Yearning for _something_) * * * I only know two things; I know what I need to know And I know what I want to know Mangeorge, 2000 ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2000, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womans-lib-bah/7687/5 "2000-02-21T05:53:00Z")
Okay Okay, if this where in GD or in the BBQ Pit I would comment…but since it’s not I will maintain civility… ---
**Author:** ![loadtoad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8baadc/32.png) [@loadtoad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/loadtoad)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2000, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womans-lib-bah/7687/6 "2000-02-21T06:01:00Z")
The statement that women today want all of the rights of a man and none of the responsibilities is a, unfortunately true statement. But i feel it needs to be discussed on its own, so i will retract it for now so that we may get down to the heart of the original question. Also I need to reiterate that I am talking about most women not all women… ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2000, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womans-lib-bah/7687/7 "2000-02-21T06:08:00Z")
[[The statement that women today want all of the rights of a man and none of the responsibilities is a, unfortunately true statement.]] Ain’t true for me. We all should have the same rights and the same responsibilities. It does bug me a bit when people talk about “mothers” being the ones who face the quandry about whether to stay home with kids, instead of “parents.” Jill Duh ---
**Author:** ![neuro-trash\_grrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ab097/32.png) [@neuro-trash\_grrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neuro-trash_grrrl)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2000, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womans-lib-bah/7687/8 "2000-02-21T06:11:00Z")
What in the flaming blue HELL are you talking about? I’ve known several “househusbands” who stayed home and cooked and cleaned and took care of the kids while Mom was out bringing home the bacon. I don’t think of them as bums, nobody I know thinks about them as bums, and they sure as hell don’t think of themselves as bums! On the other hand, the glass ceiling is alive and well in just about any industry you care to name. I want all the priviledges of being male, and I’m willing to take the responsibility, but I do not want to be stuck with all the responsibilities and none of the priviledges! Get it!? So, yes it’s a double standard, but not in the way you’re thinking. Since this isn’t the BBQ Pit, I’ll spare you the rest of what I was going to post. Have a nice day. * * * An infinite number of rednecks in an infinite number of pickup trucks shooting an infinite number of shotguns at an infinite number of road signs will eventually produce all the world’s great works of literature in Braille. ---
**Author:** ![loadtoad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8baadc/32.png) [@loadtoad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/loadtoad)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2000, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womans-lib-bah/7687/9 "2000-02-21T06:12:00Z")
thanks jillgat. its nice to know your out there ---
**Author:** ![loadtoad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8baadc/32.png) [@loadtoad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/loadtoad)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2000, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womans-lib-bah/7687/10 "2000-02-21T06:24:00Z")
Many woman that i talk to(at much personal peril)over this subject become very angry. I think that most woman i talk to(most) feel as if the discrimination for advancement they face in the work place is the fault of the dominate male upper echelons. My main question is,why do woman place so much pressure on men to succeed? I’m also finding that allot of the woman have many inequalities forced upon them by their own attitudes. Most women in my age group 29+ will accept lower wages for the same job. I have a friend and his sister in law with almost the exact same qualifications. She has slaved away at her job for 3 years now earning a third of what he does. He has advanced his position by transferring company to company until he felt he was being fairly rewarded for his labors. (she remains a disgruntled women’s libber) Now, I won’t say I’ve done a cross section analysis of ALL woman in the work place but I’ve spent a number of years working all over the U.S. and my feeling is woman put us in our place (and their own) more than men have. ---
**Author:** ![loadtoad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8baadc/32.png) [@loadtoad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/loadtoad)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2000, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womans-lib-bah/7687/11 "2000-02-21T06:51:00Z")
What in the flaming blue HELL are you talking about? I’ve known several “househusbands” who stayed home and cooked and cleaned and took care of the kids while Mom was out bringing home the bacon. I don’t think of them as bums, nobody I know thinks about them as bums… Now the reason for the question revolves around my own need for transferring to Mr. Mom status…While in the service, my wife went to school to become an RN…after I was medically discharged (nothing debillitating mind you) I became self employed. After our son came along it has become clear that we need the medical insurance her job provides. and at present, my own paycheck might be able to barely affornd a full time care giver for our child let alone insurance. So why don’t I stay home and be Mr. MOM? The women sneer and scoff , my mother in law has repeatedly asked when I am going to start putting in the 80 hours a week it would take for my wife to stay at home full time. The majority of male friends I have seem sceptical until I explain the whole money thing to them then they understand and stop harrasing me ;\>). Women on the other hand seem confused at best "why doesn’t he just get another job? ", they ask. At worst, they use lazy and bum right off the bat. I can provide for my family just as well as my wife could in this role!!! ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2000, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womans-lib-bah/7687/12 "2000-02-21T07:01:00Z")
## loadtoad; For your perusal, the Board of Directors at Chevron Corporation the co. I work for; ## David J. O’Reilly, (2) Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer, Chevron Corporation Richard H. Matzke Vice Chairman, Chevron Corporation James N. Sullivan Vice Chairman, Chevron Corporation Samuel H. Armacost, (3, 4) Managing Director, Weiss, Peck & Greer L.L.C. Sam Ginn, (1, 3) Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer, VodaFone AirTouch PLC Carla A. Hills, (2, 4) Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Hills & Company International Consultants J. Bennett Johnston, (1, 2) Chief Executive Officer, Johnston & Associates Charles M. Pigott, (3, 4) Chairman Emeritus and Director, PACCAR Inc Condoleezza Rice, (2, 4) Provost and Vice President, Stanford University Frank A. Shrontz, (1, 3) Director, Chevron Corporation Chang-Lin Tien, (1, 3) Director, Chevron Corporation John A. Young, (1, 2) Vice Chairman of the Board, Novell, Inc. Oh, my goodness. Where are all the “girls”. Check the lists for some other major american corporations. Just type the name of the company into your browser. Only in some of new, high-tech companies will you find a significant difference. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![loadtoad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8baadc/32.png) [@loadtoad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/loadtoad)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2000, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womans-lib-bah/7687/13 "2000-02-21T07:40:00Z")
Businesses owned by women generated $1.6 trillion in business revenues and employed 13.2 million people in 1992. [http://falcon.nji.com/~vera/business.htm](http://falcon.nji.com/~vera/business.htm) Now, this isn’t an in depth study by any means but I do know many woman business owners… and I would be interested in seeing the actual figure for say those companies based from the U.S. and the progression of woman into higher positions over the last ten years or so…Anyone, anyone??? Ill’ keep looking ---
**Author:** ![meara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@meara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meara)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2000, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womans-lib-bah/7687/14 "2000-02-21T08:16:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Todays women want all the privledges of a man, but none of the responsibilities. Hmmm… my husband and I have virtually identical resumés and it’s hard to think of any privileges or responsibilities he’s been keeping to himself. As far as I can tell, we’ve faced the same opportunities and risks, and have both ended up where we’ve wanted to be. So… either something’s wrong with me and the others posting here, or you’re making foolish generalizations when you presume to know what WOMEN want and don’t want. Perhaps _some_ working women feel they deserve more money, but as you’ve pointed out, _some_ home-making men want more credit as well. Why not just kill these “women vs. men” debates and give everyone the respect they deserve? ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2000, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womans-lib-bah/7687/15 "2000-02-21T16:06:00Z")
Ah, women’s lib, or was it women’s lip? Just kidding. Hey, I was there. I thought it was a great idea, it’s kind of brought us a unisex role model. Where those with the proper intelligence can see a person for their individualism. But it brought confusion too. Some women want to be protected, others want to protect. If you want to know if a woman is which, just ask her. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2000, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/womans-lib-bah/7687/16 "2000-02-23T17:07:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Satan: > \*\*Countdown to removal to Great Debates… > > 10… > 9… > 8… > > \*\* Countdown delayed by board outage. 7654321 liftoff. * * * Livin’ on Tums, vitamin E and Rogaine