# Women Against Feminism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2015, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667 "2015-09-27T03:08:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/201 "2015-10-06T21:29:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > IIRC he’s found some statistics that suggest that women may hit or otherwise put hands on their male partners nearly as often as men do, but he totally ignores the fact that hospitalizations due to injury and deaths due to domestic violence are overwhelmingly caused by men. To what extent is that a consequence of the heavy social stigma against male domestic violence victims? There are plenty of men who would much rather suffer in silence than go to a hospital and say “My wife beat me up”. That doesn’t mean they’re not suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/202 "2015-10-06T21:32:34Z")
You’re begging the question. If you’re going to just assert that “there are plenty,” there’s no need to talk about the statistics at all, is there? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/203 "2015-10-06T21:47:28Z")
To make things easy, here’s a list of open questions. I am including post numbers so that I do not inaccurately summarize. Post 197 **Andros** would like to get more data on the beliefs of “most feminists” and domestic violence. Post 199 **ddsun** would like to understand the relationship between feminists, bugs, and the patriarchy. Feel free to add items to the list if I have missed them. **LinusK** looking forward to your responses. ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/204 "2015-10-06T21:53:26Z")
> [@andros](#): > > > [@LinusK](#): > > > > **Most feminists believe, or pretend to believe,** that domestic violence is a crime usually or virtually always committed by men against women. (Ex.: the Violence Against Women Act.) **Feminists that acknowledge** that women are approximately as likely to commit intimate partner violence as men **are few and far between.** > > Emphases mine. > > I want to know, LinusK, if you have any evidence to support your assertions that this is what “most feminists” believe. > > I mean, I’d hate for you to be attacking a strawman. Or, indeed, a strawwoman. > > What say, LinusK? Got some data? I’ve found a cite called the [Feminist Majority Foundation](http://www.feminist.org/911/crisis_facts.html) (slogan: _“Equality Around The World”_) that states the following: [ul] [li] Of those victimized by an intimate partner, 85% are women and 15% are men. In other words, women are 5 to 8 times more likely than men to be victimized by an intimate partner.[/li] [li] Although many studies report that men and women use physical violence at equal rates within intimate relationships, this fails to take into account the nature of the violence and the level of fear and injury experienced by each party.[/li][/ul] These two statements are, obviously, rather contradictory. On the one hand, they say women are victimised nearly six times as often as men, and then on the other they note that “many studies” show that men and women use violence according to roughly equal rates. I don’t much care to unpick this contradiction, but I will note that the first claim is based on Justice Department statistics, which obviously don’t account for the enormous social pressure on male domestic abuse victims _not_ to report their victimisation. Regardless, the Feminist Majority Foundation brushes this aside by downplaying the fear that male abuse victims suffer (they refer to it as a “myth”). Besides, **LinusK** never said anything about fear anyway. He was just commenting on the raw numbers of female and male domestic abuse victims. ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/205 "2015-10-06T21:54:35Z")
> [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > You’re begging the question. If you’re going to just assert that “there are plenty,” there’s no need to talk about the statistics at all, is there? Are you seriously denying that there is a social stigma against male domestic abuse victims? Are you _seriously_ making that claim? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/206 "2015-10-06T22:01:54Z")
No. Does that help? ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/207 "2015-10-07T00:39:13Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > Post 199 **ddsun** would like to understand the relationship between feminists, bugs, and the patriarchy. meh. don’t be such a dour fellow you can’t take a joke. Besides the feminists are the bugs which the heroric patriarchs crush under their steel boots. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/208 "2015-10-07T01:30:20Z")
I’d like to think I’m not a fellow at all. 😉 I’ll give you the occasional “dour”. I’d stop bringing up the bugs if the OP would. Since he doesn’t, I’d like a more detailed explanation. They clearly fit into his anti-feminism worldview on the same level as child custody or gender suicide differences. Can he explain that? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/209 "2015-10-07T01:34:50Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Again: predictable. You are, as usual, attacking me rather than addressing the subject. Attacking a person is not a substitute for an actual debate. But I’ve told you that before, and I don’t suspect it’ll sink in this time any more than it has before. There is no “actual debate” in any of your threads, because you do nothing but regurgitate other people’s content. You aren’t here to debate, and I’ve seen no evidence that you even understand what a debate is. > [@](#): > > Also, as a side note, everything you said was wrong. Everything I said was right. I’d be tempted to say that this is why you couldn’t respond to it directly, but of course you can’t respond to anything directly. All you can do is parrot things you’ve seen and heard elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/210 "2015-10-07T04:19:15Z")
LinusK, why do you refuse to answer direct questions? ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/211 "2015-10-07T05:18:56Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > I came across this site: [Women Against Feminism](http://womenagainstfeminism.tumblr.com). I hope some of you will read what they have to say before responding. > > The question is: Who are these people? > > An irrelevant minority? > > A growing backlash against modern feminism? > > A handful of women brainwashed by the Patriarchy? > > Something else? > > Thanks for your responses. > [@](#): > > Chapter V As winter drew on, Mollie became more and more troublesome. She was late for work every morning and excused herself by saying that she had overslept, and she complained of mysterious pains, although her appetite was excellent. On every kind of pretext she would run away from work and go to the drinking pool, where she would stand foolishly gazing at her own reflection in the water. But there were also rumours of something more serious. One day, as Mollie strolled blithely into the yard, flirting her long tail and chewing at a stalk of hay, Clover took her aside. “Mollie,” she said, “I have something very serious to say to you. This morning I saw you looking over the hedge that divides Animal Farm from Foxwood. One of Mr. Pilkington’s men was standing on the other side of the hedge. And–I was a long way away, but I am almost certain I saw this–he was talking to you and you were allowing him to stroke your nose. What does that mean, Mollie?” “He didn’t! I wasn’t! It isn’t true!” cried Mollie, beginning to prance about and paw the ground. “Mollie! Look me in the face. Do you give me your word of honour that that man was not stroking your nose?” “It isn’t true!” repeated Mollie, but she could not look Clover in the face, and the next moment she took to her heels and galloped away into the field. A thought struck Clover. Without saying anything to the others, she went to Mollie’s stall and turned over the straw with her hoof. Hidden under the straw was a little pile of lump sugar and several bunches of ribbon of different colours. Three days later Mollie disappeared. For some weeks nothing was known of her whereabouts, then the pigeons reported that they had seen her on the other side of Willingdon. She was between the shafts of a smart dogcart painted red and black, which was standing outside a public-house. A fat red-faced man in check breeches and gaiters, who looked like a publican, was stroking her nose and feeding her with sugar. Her coat was newly clipped and she wore a scarlet ribbon round her forelock. She appeared to be enjoying herself, so the pigeons said. None of the animals ever mentioned Mollie again. ~Orwell ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/212 "2015-10-07T20:26:49Z")
Kudos. I am not sure if your quote supports the anti-feminists or merely represents your understanding of the OP. Either way, I almost snorted milk. Masterful use of Orwell in a non-literary setting. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/213 "2015-10-07T21:06:42Z")
If I was to guess, Mollie represents one of these “anti-feminists,” who are rejecting the naive idealism of this third-wave feminist nonsense for the comfort of a man who comes home to a freshly-cooked dinner and a kiss on the cheek. ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/214 "2015-10-07T21:42:45Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > If I was to guess, Mollie represents one of these “anti-feminists,” who are rejecting the naive idealism of this third-wave feminist nonsense for the comfort of a man who comes home to a freshly-cooked dinner and a kiss on the cheek. Or a fawning male feminist desperate for the sweet milk of female attention, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/215 "2015-10-08T00:01:28Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Seems the thread has deteriorated into ad hominem. Actually men and women who challenge male bashing stereotypes on Social Media such as Twitter and YouTube face much more abuse – they are libeled, and threatened by many. Yet by dismantling male bashing stereotypes they are helping disadvantaged men in many ways. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/216 "2015-10-08T12:35:28Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by LinusK View Post > > Let me ask you something: why do you think there are more men in prison than women? > > > > Why do you think men commit suicide more often than women? > > > > Why do you think more little boys are diagnosed with ADHD, and drugged for their condition, than girls? > > > > Why do you think women usually get custody after a divorce? Why do men who do get custody get less court- ordered child support than women? Why do you think women - if they are ordered to pay it - pay less child support than men? > > > > Why do you think men die sooner than women? > > > > Why do women get lesser sentences than men, for the same crimes? > > > > Why do you think men who make the mistake of calling domestic abuse hotlines get referred to abuser programs? Or asked what they did to deserve it? Or simply get laughed at? > > > > Why do you think the California legislature passed a law that defined domestic abuse as a crime - but only if it happened to a woman? > > > > And finally, why are women so afraid of bugs? > > …you do realize that most, if not all of these questions were answered in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=762527), don’t you? You might want to pay particular attention to the posts in that thread that you completely ignored, those are the ones with the answers. Ah. You’re referring to the _other_ thread I posted, back in July. I don’t think the issues I brought up in _that_ thread were addressed, much less the ones I posted above. Mostly they were met with comments like this one: > [@](#): > > I think deep down we all know what Linus’ real issue is: girls won’t have sex with him. Ergo, there must be some deep failing within society. And this one: > [@](#): > > Why are you so threatened by women? And this one: > [@](#): > > Why do you hate women? In other words, the same kind of shit that feminists post in this thread. At first I made the mistake of pointing out that they’re explicitly violating the rules. But that didn’t stop them. Eventually the thread was closed because I didn’t report them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/217 "2015-10-08T12:48:15Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > In other words, the same kind of shit that feminists post in this thread. At first I made the mistake of pointing out that they’re explicitly violating the rules. But that didn’t stop them. Eventually the thread was closed because I didn’t report them. There were tons of responses that attempted to engage on the issues (as there are in this thread too), and these you mostly ignored. For some reason you chose and continue to choose to mostly engage with the personal insults, while mostly ignoring the substantive challenges and criticisms. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/218 "2015-10-08T12:52:21Z")
Every time I see this thread title, I think of the group **Ladies Against Women** , a satirical bunch who have been around since the pre-internet days: > **[Ladies Against Women](https://ladiesagainstwomen.com/)** > > Our Ladyfesto and Our Good Works ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/219 "2015-10-08T12:57:33Z")
a bit more: > [@](#): > > Ladies Against Women (LAW) was a street performance group that used satire to ridicule the anti-feminist backlash of 1980s Reagan-era America. In ruffled dresses, white gloves and pillbox hats, the Ladies would hand out consciousness-lowering manifestos that included such action items as “Restore virginity as a high-school graduation requirement” and “Eliminate the gender gap by repealing the Ladies’ Vote (Babies, Not Ballots).” LAW welcomed new recruits, but only if they brought pink permission slips signed by their husbands. [http://beautifultrouble.org/practitioner/ladies-against-women/](http://beautifultrouble.org/practitioner/ladies-against-women/) ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667/220 "2015-10-08T13:08:29Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > Did we ever get a stated purpose for the thread? I asked twice, but didn’t get a reply. So really, we got 4 pages out of a check-out-this-link type post and a re-hash of earlier threads. The topic is “Women Against Feminism”. As for the purpose… I’m sure that’s up to you to decide. The question is, why should it exist? Feminists have said it’s because they’re young, naive, foolish or ignorant. Pretty much what I would expect, since they don’t seem to be able (or willing) to think beyond ad hominem attacks. Interestingly, the angry, personalized hostility of feminism is exactly what turns women against feminism. > [@](#): > > I DON’T NEED FEMINISM BECAUSE: > > 1. WHEN I’M ON THEIR SIDE, I’M OPPRESSED AND SPECIAL. WHEN I’M NOT, I’M A “DUMB, PRIVILEGED, THIN, WHITE, CIS GIRL” WHO KNOWS NO SUFFERING. > > 2. I DON’T WANT MY HAPPY NEPHEW TO GROW UP BEING TAUGHT HE IS INHERENTLY BAD FOR BEING BORN MALE. > > 3. FEMINISTS WOULD RATHER DEGRADE AND DISTRUST MY “CISHET WHITE BOYFRIEND” THAN APPLAUD HIM FOR HELPING ME THROUGH MY DEPRESSION AND ABUSE. FEMINISTS WOULD RATHER INTILL FEAR AND LOATHING OF MEN THAN HELP VICTIMS MOVE ON. [Link](http://womenagainstfeminism.tumblr.com/image/130220634130). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/women-against-feminism/732667.md?page=12)